Ottawa on BSE

    Hon. Don Boudria (Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food.

    It has now been one year since our country was struck by mad cow disease. One of my constituents recently told me that he had sent 13 cows to the abattoir and received $882 for them, instead of the $10,000 he would have got a year ago, and, in one very tragic instance, a cheque of $2.01 for 2 animals.

    What is the government prepared to do to help farmers in my riding and elsewhere?

    Hon. Mark Eyking (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food (Agri-Food), Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the member for Glengarry—Prescott—Russell for asking that important question. Being a big promoter of the dairy industry in the House, he knows the effect BSE has had on farms and farm families.

    We are taking many approaches. One is to get the border open. The other one is to roll out financial programs. One of those financial programs is the cull cow program, a $120 million program. We also recently removed the slaughter requirement from that program to get more money to producers and in their hands more quickly.

    Hon. David Kilgour (Edmonton Southeast, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food.

    Yesterday I spoke to packers in the United States who told me that they are laying off 100 employees soon because they do not have access to live cattle from Canada.

    Thousands and thousands of families on both sides of the border depend on that border being opened. Does he have any words of encouragement for Canadians on that?

    Hon. Mark Eyking (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food (Agri-Food), Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the member for Edmonton Southeast for his question.

    I had the pleasure meeting with some of his farmers last month and they told me their concerns. One of the things that they want to see is the border opened. The Prime Minister and the government is working to open that border.

    I would like to commend members on this side of the House and across the floor who will be going to Washington next week to talk to the Americans about opening the border. It would be good for both countries if the border were open.

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    The Speaker: It is my duty to inform the House, pursuant to Standing Order 81(14), that the motion to be considered tomorrow during consideration of the business of supply is as follows:

 

That the government reallocate its resources from wasteful and unnecessary programs such as the gun registry and the sponsorship program to address the agricultural crisis at the farm gate across Canada.

    This motion standing in the name of the hon. member for Macleod is votable.

    Copies of the motion are available at the table.

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    Mr. Peter Adams (Peterborough, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food.

    The BSE issue has become a tragedy affecting not only the beef industry but all of rural Canada. In my riding alone, 1,000 families are directly affected.

    I have asked before and I ask again, what is the minister doing to help farm families hit by the BSE crisis?

    Hon. Bob Speller (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I agree with the hon. member that the Canadian beef industry is in a difficult state. I have had an opportunity to consult with Canadian farmers and farm families. They have told me that they would like us to remove the slaughter provision from the cull cow program.

    I am pleased to announce today that in fact we are doing that; however, more needs to be done. I want to assure all hon. members that I am working with the industry to do exactly that.

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    Mr. Gerald Keddy (South Shore, CPC): Mr. Speaker, in all this scandal, one issue has floated to the top. The Prime Minister has put his personal ambition ahead of the public trust. It forever reminds me of a big bullfrog just jumping from one scandal ridden lily pad to the next as it sinks underneath it.

    According to the same Prime Minister, there is no money out there to help farmers affected by BSE but he found $250 million to help his Liberal friends.

    Hon. Ralph Goodale (Minister of Finance, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I would remind the hon. gentleman that over the last number of months the government has invested the better part of $500 million in initiatives to deal with BSE. Officials with the Department of Agriculture spent all day yesterday in consultations with the Canadian Cattlemen's Association to determine what further might be required.

    Mr. Gerald Keddy (South Shore, CPC): Mr. Speaker, if the government were to convict everybody who was guilty in this scandal it would not have enough left for a four-handed game of 45.

    I ask those members to just look at themselves. They are an embarrassment, an absolutely incredible embarrassment to the history of this nation.

    It is incredible that the government feels that it is acceptable to launder $250 million toward Liberal lackeys while neglecting its duties to other Canadians.

    The Minister of Finance is not too busy trying to ward off the Liberal sponsorship death--

    The Deputy Speaker: Order, please. The hon. Minister of Finance.

    Hon. Ralph Goodale (Minister of Finance, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, in all that outburst there was not in fact a question.

    I would simply point out to Canadians that the Government of Canada is absolutely determined that this matter will be thoroughly ventilated from top to bottom and the consequences will fall wherever the consequences should be. We will follow the trail and deal with this matter decisively. All the processes are in place to do that.

    In the meantime, I am working very hard on a budget that will meet the expectations of Canadians.

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    Hon. Lorne Nystrom (Regina—Qu'Appelle, NDP): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-food.

    There has been one case of BSE in Canada, one cow out of some 15 million. As we know, the Americans closed its border to the import of live Canadian cattle. On the other hand, there has been one case of BSE in the United States and for some strange reason we continue to import American cattle into eastern Canada.

    I know that not even a Liberal sponsorship program could help our farmers, but what I want to know is whether or not the minister will create a level playing field and tell the Americans that if they do not open their border for Canadians, we will close our border in terms of their beef imports and will start shipping western Canadian beef to eastern Canada. Will he do that?

    Hon. Bob Speller (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the approach taken by the Government of Canada was an approach that was first developed by sitting down and talking with the industry, talking with the Canadian Cattlemen's Association, talking with the Canadian Federation of Agriculture and all the provinces. They told us that they want us to get out there to market Canadian beef around the world, to show consumers around the world that in fact Canadian beef is some of the safest beef in the world.

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February 11, 2004

    Mr. Rick Laliberte (Churchill River, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, farmers and the agricultural industry remain hopeful that we will regain our foreign markets soon, but a recent newspaper article stated that the borders could be closed for years and not months to Canadian beef.

    Could the Minister of Agriculture tell the House what information this was based on and is this indeed correct?

    Hon. Bob Speller (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, first and foremost I want all hon. members to know that this document was a document speculating not on the opening of the U.S. border, but on Canada's support at the OIE to get it to recognize specifically our North American situation. It was obviously over pessimistic.

    In fact since that time, borders have opened. For instance, the United States has opened its border to Canadian beef under the age of 30 months. We have heard today that Macao, another island country, will be opening up its borders shortly to Canadian beef.

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    Mrs. Carol Skelton (Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, CPC): Mr. Speaker, recently the USDA banned the feeding of blood and blood meal to ruminants, yet this government is dragging its feet on doing the same thing. Canada needs to implement regulations in lockstep with our American counterparts. Why has the government not yet implemented regulations that would ban the feeding of blood and blood meal to ruminants?

    Hon. Bob Speller (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member said, first and foremost what is important is that the Government of Canada, in co-ordination with both Mexico and the United States, bring in regulations that are North American-based.

    I had the opportunity of meeting with my American and Mexican counterparts. We got an agreement to work toward that, and next week will be the first set of meetings where we will sit down and work toward co-ordinating a North American approach to BSE.

    Mrs. Carol Skelton (Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, CPC): Mr. Speaker, last week the international panel came out with their findings and recommendations for the U.S. cattle industry. One of those recommendations is to ban the feeding of animal protein to ruminants.

    I would like to ask the agriculture minister this. How have the USDA and Secretary Veneman responded to this proposal about blood products?

    Hon. Bob Speller (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member said, the international peer review panel reported in the United States last week, and it had reported to us. It has not tell us the same things as it has told the Americans because there are different situations depending upon the country.

    As I told the hon. member, first and foremost what is important is that Canada and the United States co-ordinate these measures. That is why next week officials will be sitting down with our American counterparts to do exactly that.

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    Mr. Gerry Ritz (Battlefords—Lloydminster, CPC): Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister's throne speech outlined his own personal big spend agenda using everybody else's taxes. I know he will lose tax dollars from our livestock industry after his government finishes driving it into bankruptcy. That is a $30 billion industry supplying 225,000 jobs in this country, yet the Prime Minister and the finance minister continue to ignore the industry to death.

    Is it because there is no political gain in rural Canada for these Liberals? Is that why?

    Hon. Bob Speller (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, first, I would like to thank all hon. members who last night participated in a take note debate. I thought all hon. members gave the Government of Canada a lot of information that we needed and we will use in terms of our deliberations.

    As the hon. member knows, and as I said last night, the Government of Canada has responded in a couple of different areas. First and foremost in terms of out marketing Canadian beef, and second, looking after those Canadian farmers and farm families with programs to ensure there are dollars in their hands to help with the impact that BSE is having on them.

    Mr. Gerry Ritz (Battlefords—Lloydminster, CPC): Mr. Speaker, there we go again hearing the same old platitudes and promises that we heard last night. It is all retroactive. There is no proactivity in the government's programs at all. Nothing gets delivered to the farm gate.

    Producers, and that is their advocate over there, wonder if it is because the new agriculture minister is not up to the job. He is not pounding on the cabinet table. He is not getting their attention. There are no dollars flowing. That guy is so laid back he makes Rip Van Winkle look like a disco dancer.

    Why has the minister not convinced his cabinet colleagues that there is a severe crisis out there?

    Right Hon. Paul Martin (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member may know, over the course of the last two to three months I have met with the cattle industry in Saskatchewan, I have met with the cattle industry in Ontario, I have met with it in Quebec and I have done so in Alberta.

    There is one consistent theme and that is praise for this Minister of Agriculture who went to Japan and Korea and who was on the job in Alberta and in Saskatchewan. Unanimously, the cattle industry has praised him for the job that he has done.

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    Mr. Peter Adams (Peterborough, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food. I know the minister is working hard on the BSE file. I know that the Prime Minister made that issue a priority for his meeting with President Bush, but complications following the discovery of BSE in the United States have made farmers in my riding desperate.

    I represent 1,000 beef, dairy, sheep, goat and buffalo farmers and their families. Can the minister give us some hope that there will be an end to the BSE crisis and give us an update on the U.S. investigation into BSE?

    Hon. Bob Speller (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the hon. member for his question and I also want to thank the members of my caucus who have pushed for a take note debate tonight on this very serious issue.

    I want to assure him and all hon. members today that the Government of Canada takes this issue very seriously and that we will continue to work hard internationally to get the borders open to Canadian beef. I also want to thank the hon. member for bringing up the United States peer review report, which of course was announced today, and it is one that the government--

    The Speaker: The hon. member for Portage--Lisgar.

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    Mr. Gerry Ritz (Battlefords—Lloydminster, CPC): Mr. Speaker, agriculture is a cash flow business like any other. Due to a single case of BSE, that lifeline has been cut. AIDA, CFIP and now CAISP are all Liberal programs that failed to deliver and do little to address a crisis like BSE.

    Why does the new agriculture minister carry on the old Liberal tradition of advancing programs that never reach the farm gate?

    Hon. Bob Speller (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I am certain there is not a member in the House who does not feel for the farmers, the farm families and indeed the communities across this country impacted by the BSE situation.

    The Government of Canada takes this situation very seriously as evidenced by the work of the Prime Minister and other ministers on this, to work toward getting that border open.

    In the meantime, these are difficult times for Canadian farmers and we will do everything within our power to ensure that the impact this is having on them is not an impact that will remove them out of the industry.

    Mr. Gerry Ritz (Battlefords—Lloydminster, CPC): Mr. Speaker, the new minister claims he is a big listener and another committee will be structured; however, the industry out there is more interested in what he will do. Actions speak a lot louder than weasel words.

    The head of the Alberta Cattle Feeders' Association said yesterday that his industry can survive another 45 days under the Liberal government. The clock is ticking.

    When will the minister announce his new plan and the budget to go along with it? When will he do that?

    Hon. Bob Speller (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, what the Government of Canada did first and foremost was to sit down with the industry to get an understanding as to where it saw the role of the federal government.

    We then took the responses from the industry which told us that we needed to get out to market Canadian beef around the world. This is why I, along with one of the member's colleagues and another one of my colleagues went to Japan. We went to Korea and Washington.

    In fact, in Washington, we received agreement from the governments of the United States and Mexico to work together on a North American strategy. This is an issue for all farmers in North America and it is one of--

    The Speaker: The hon. member for Roberval.

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    Ms. Jocelyne Girard-Bujold (Jonquière, BQ): Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food has forced cattle producers into poverty by refusing to extend assistance past September 1.

    What answer can the minister, who is so boastful of his agricultural policy framework, give to the Fédération des éléveurs de bovins du Québec, which points out that this does not meet the expectations of farmers here since it does not cover all losses, but only 70% of them?

    How can he justify not covering the other 30%, when we know very well that businesses are being forced into bankruptcy because of lack of income?

    Mr. Claude Duplain (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I do not understand the hon. member. We have a strategic policy framework. It has been signed, and makes $5.2 billion available over the next three years. Cattle producers can access those funds immediately, because the APF was signed yesterday morning.

    So I do not understand the hon. member's question at all.

    Ms. Jocelyne Girard-Bujold (Jonquière, BQ): Such cynicism, Mr. Speaker.

    Laurent Pellerin, the head of the UPA, has said, “This does not suit us at all”, referring to the agricultural policy framework. He went on, “Quebec has 25% of the population of Canada, and 20% of agricultural production, yet we are getting a mere 10% or 11% of the envelope”.

    Thirty seconds after he has brushed aside the concerns of the cattle producers, is the minister going to step his cynicism up a notch by doing the same to those of the entire agricultural industry of Quebec?

    Mr. Claude Duplain (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, my colleague likes to quote people, so I will give her a quote as well. Had she read on a bit further, she would have seen that Mr. Pellerin also said, “This will be excellent news in the long run, however, because of the efforts to dovetail the federal program and the farm income stabilization insurance program”.

    He went on to say, “Quebec producers should be at the same level as before, once they have access to the best of both worlds—”.

    What could be better than that?

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October 9, 2003

    Mr. Howard Hilstrom (Selkirk—Interlake, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the current price for live beef cattle is below the cost of production. This problem can be corrected by getting the U.S. border opened up right away.

    The agriculture minister has been working on this issue since May 20, so surely by now he must have been able to negotiate a date to open the border.

    Would the minister tell us on what date we will be able to export live cattle?

[Translation]

    Mr. Claude Duplain (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, opening up the border is based on science and we are in the process of proving that it can and must be opened. Negotiations with the United States continue daily.

[English]

    Mr. Howard Hilstrom (Selkirk—Interlake, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, ministers come into the House and admit failure when tens of thousands of our farm families are running into financial problems on the basis of almost losing their farms.

    I would like to ask the minister, has he been briefed by the agriculture minister as to the rules that will be coming into place in order for us to export live cattle, and what are those rules?

[Translation]

    Mr. Claude Duplain (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, these rules are being negotiated with the United States. The border is not open yet, but we are working very hard; the minister knows full well that the problem will be resolved when the border is fully open. In the meantime, we are taking various measures to help the farmers, such as the policy framework that they can take advantage of to sign agreements and get a little money.

    Mr. Rick Borotsik (Brandon—Souris, PC): Mr. Speaker, today I received a self-serving communications package from the Minister of Agriculture telling us how wonderfully he has been handling the BSE file, but hello? The border is still closed to live cattle. It is not open.

    The agriculture committee was making arrangements to go to Washington. Unfortunately, the minister decided to cancel that trip. He made the chairman cancel the trip to Washington. I want to ask the minister, why is that? Is he threatened or is it the fact that he just does not like a proactive initiative?

[Translation]

    Mr. Claude Duplain (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the committee cannot go; however, I will ask the hon. member to check whether the Canadian Cattlemen's Association could have requested that the committee not travel to the United States.

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October 7, 2003

    Mr. Rick Casson (Lethbridge, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the Canadian Cattlemen's Association and the U.S. beef association are both calling for the harmonization of health standards in cattle. Industry on both sides of the border is in agreement. Harmonized health standards are essential to an open border and normal trade.

    Why will the government not listen to industry, accept the science, remove the barriers and get the border open?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the hon. member fails to recognize the fact that before these types of things have to happen we need to have all the scientific risk assessments taken.

    I understand, and I have heard him very clearly, that the industry wants it open, and there is no question that we want our borders open as much as we possibly can. But we have to recognize, for the health of the whole cattle industry in Canada and for the health and concerns of humans in Canada, that all of the disease and the risks that go around that have to be taken into account.

    That we will do. When that risk assessment is completed, then we will act upon that risk assessment.

    Mr. Rick Casson (Lethbridge, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the risk assessments have been done over and over again. The industry says the risk is manageable. It is willing to take the risk. It is this minister who is standing in the way of that open border.

    The government has a clear choice to make. It can do the right thing, and remove the barriers, harmonize the health in cattle and get the border open, or it could keep the border closed and be the grim reaper when it comes to the cattle industry in Canada.

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the risk assessment has been done and is being redone as we speak. The risk assessment results to date have indicated clearly that to this date the border should not be open, but in that stage, even with that, some pilot projects were done this year so that risk assessment continues. I remind the hon. member again that all risk assessments by the scientists, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency and Health Canada to date have indicated that the border should remain closed.

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    Mr. Peter Adams (Peterborough, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food.

    I have heard that Mexico has reopened its border to Canadian beef products.

    Will the minister bring us up to date on this? When will shipments start and are there similar opportunities in other countries?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the hon. member for Peterborough for his involvement and engagement on this and other issues for his agriculture constituency.

    Yes, we are very pleased that the country of Mexico has opened its borders to boneless beef. This will now allow certificates to be granted and shipments started to Mexico. It is our second largest trading country. That will add to what we have already shipped to the United States, this month's certificates, 35 million pounds. We are looking forward in the near future to making similar announcements for countries such as the Philippines, Russia and others.

    Mr. Rick Casson (Lethbridge, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the government has failed to answer my questions regarding BSE so I will try a question from Beth, a constituent of mine. Beth writes “My family operates a cattle hauling business that has been at standstill since BSE hit. Twelve families depend on this business. We have no cash coming in. The aid program that is being offered has not filtered down. What about the spin-off businesses that are collapsing as a result of this? We need help”.

    My question on behalf of Beth is, who in the government is prepared to step forward and help businesses like Beth's? Who will do that?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the way to recover for the beef industry is to get beef moving and then Beth and her employees will have an opportunity to truck cattle again.

    As I have said, we have the American border open partially. We have the Mexican border open now and a majority of the product that we have sent to Mexico, to our second largest customer, will now be eligible, can I say, to go there.

    We are moving very well as far as opening the border to the United States for live cattle under 30 months of age. We anticipate that in the not too distant future that is the way Beth and everyone in the beef industry will start to recover even more so from the situation that we are all in.

    Mr. Rick Casson (Lethbridge, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, that border is only open a crack and the minister knows it.

    Beth is 68 years old and she is watching a lifetime of hard work, sweat and tears slip away. She went on to say that she has been in contact with the government and she was told there were other things more important on its agenda. BSE was third on the list behind SARS and the definition of marriage. It is unbelievable.

    Her question is straightforward. How can the most devastating issue facing our industry be third on the list of the government's priorities?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, maybe the hon. member could give me a copy of the letter from whoever responded on behalf of the government.

    We have a number of issues and that party over there wants us to address all of them. The reaction of the government within 30 days of announcing we had BSE was to come forward with $260 million, followed up with $36 million more. Two weeks ago I announced $600 million in transition funds. We signed implementation agreements. There is over $500 million in business risk management for Canadian farmers.

    We have made that money flow. We have shown we are there to support.

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    Mr. Dick Proctor (Palliser, NDP): Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Industry will be aware that within the cattle industry there is growing belief that the $460 million in federal and provincial moneys in compensation for the mad cow crisis was inequitably distributed.

    There is a widespread feeling that packing plants indirectly benefited most by ensuring prices remained artificially low, thus guaranteeing that maximum federal and provincial dollars were spent.

    Will the minister responsible for the Competition Bureau ask the bureau to investigate whether there was indeed collusion and price fixing within the meat packing industry this summer?

    Hon. Allan Rock (Minister of Industry, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, this is the first I am hearing of it, but if the member will share with me some details of his question, I will be happy to look at it and speak with him about it.

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    Mr. Rick Casson (Lethbridge, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, every day the crisis in Canada's cattle industry deepens, pulling down more and more Canadian families.

    The U.S. border is still closed to all trade in cattle and open to only a small fraction of the beef industry. One of the issues stopping progress on getting the U.S. border open to our Canadian cattle is the refusal of this government to open our borders to U.S. cattle.

    The industry is calling for action, the Canadian Cattlemen's Association is calling for action, and the minister has even promised some action.

    I ask the minister, what steps has he taken to eliminate this hurdle to open trade in cattle?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency along with the Ministry of Health and the industry continue to review the situation the member is asking about. It is a risk assessment based on health and the concern about disease coming into Canada from the United States. We have had some pilot projects on this. We will continue to monitor it and continue the risk assessment.

    I also want to remind the member that he should be thanking the government for getting the border open to the extent that we have. We have now had 27 million pounds of Canadian meat and beef move into the United States already in the month of September.

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    Mr. Dick Proctor (Palliser, NDP): Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food knows that most of the 500,000 government and taxpayer dollars resulting from one mad cow went to Alberta feedlot operators. It helps explain why farmers in other provinces are beginning to liquidate a portion of their herd. In fact, a former agricultural economist and current leader of the Alberta Liberal Party said:

 

This program has to be the worst thought-out support program of all of the ag support programs I have studied in 35 years of ag policy work.

    Why did the minister sign on to such a flawed, inequitable program that benefits a fortunate few at the expense of so many cattle producers?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, it was certainly not the opinion of the Canadian Cattlemen's Association and representatives of all provinces.

    The program was put in place in cooperation with the provinces and with the encouragement of the Canadian Cattlemen's Association in order to move fat cattle to market. Immediately after the May announcement, we were slaughtering about 25,000 cattle a week. By the end of the program, we were slaughtering 73,000 animals a week, which were more animals than we were slaughtering per week before we announced that we had an unfortunate case of one animal with BSE.

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    Mr. Gerry Ritz (Battlefords—Lloydminster, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, in his speech yesterday on the BSE crisis, the Minister of Agriculture said, “Unfortunately we are dealing with a health issue”.

    If this is a health issue now, there is no way live cattle will ever cross the border because of the testing requirements. If that is the new reality about which the minister is talking, then our livestock industry will need a massive overhaul.

    When will the minister table his revised plans for dealing with this crisis as a health issue?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the hon. member knows the border was closed on May 20 to the United States and other countries because BSE is considered to be a health issue.

    What he also knows, and I pointed out yesterday, Canada's chief veterinary officer along with the United States, Mexico, Australia, New Zealand and many other countries are leading a discussion at the OIE meetings in Paris in September, and they are there right now, in response to a letter that the United States, Canada and Mexico sent there asking them to review the science, the surveillance and the feeding practices and put the whole situation as far as health in a proper and new risk assessment.

    Mr. Gerry Ritz (Battlefords—Lloydminster, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, I can understand the minister trying to shift this from trade to health because they have no political capital to fight a trade issue with the United States.

    If the minister feels this is a health issue, then we had better get some better answers than the Minister of Health had on SARS. If it is a trade issue, then the Minister for International Trade had better get up to speed here rather than what he did on the softwood lumber crisis.

    If we are forced to reconfigure our livestock to a mainly domestic market, producers need a plan. We need that plan now and we need a budget now. When will the minister deliver it?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, this is entirely and completely the work of the beef roundtable, which was in place for some time before the BSE issue. At that time it was talking about the industry and how to expand the industry and respond to international demands and market situations. At the present time that very same beef roundtable, with provincial and federal representation, producers, processors, consumers, is involved in how to best adapt the beef industry to the realities of the day. At the same time it is working to get our borders reopened.

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September 23, 2003

    Mr. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the American border has been closed to Canadian cattle now for 127 days; 127 days and the government still has no marketing strategy for Canadian beef, still has no plans to resolve the feeder cattle issue with the United States, and still has no planned trip to Washington by the Prime Minister and government leaders.

    Why is this government acting so systematically slowly in getting this border open?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the hon. member fails to recognize and appreciate the fact that Canada is the only country in the world that has had other non-BSE countries open their borders to our product. That has been because of the efforts of a lot of people: ministers, diplomats, phone calls by the Prime Minister, the industry involvement in all of this, and the recognition by both the Canadian and the United States industries that this is an integrated industry in North America. Therefore they have as well recognized the safety system that we have here in Canada and therefore have begun to open their markets.

    Mr. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, none of that answered my questions about the inaction. It does not explain why there is no marketing strategy for our beef. It does not explain why the feeder cattle problem is not resolved. And it does not explain why there has been no trip to Washington.

    But there is one possible explanation and that is that this government wants to wait until it has a new Liberal leader to take credit for resolving the problem, at the cost of more worry and money for Canadian farm families. Is this government deliberately dragging its feet so that the new leader can take credit for the border being opened when it finally happens?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, when the United States has already imported over eight million pounds of beef from Canada, the hon. members are saying it is nothing.

    When nothing was happening, they were upset. Now that we are starting to move product, they are upset. Do we have further steps to take? Yes, we do. Are those actions taking place? Yes, they are.

    The Secretary of Agriculture in the United States again said this week she is expediting the process to move live cattle under 30 months directly to market in the United States. That is another big step that will be in the near future.

    Mr. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the House will note that the government did not refute my allegation; if this is not about playing partisan politics with the new leader.

    For weeks there have been suggestions that there be an all party, non-partisan committee to go to Washington. That includes former prime minister Brian Mulroney. There have been suggestions that Premier Klein be invited to Washington. I know we in this party are prepared to do that. Others in this House are prepared to do that.

    If this is not about promoting a new Liberal leader, will this government agree to lead an all party delegation to Washington to resolve this problem?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the approach that this government and this industry, with the provinces, have taken has been very successful in comparison to what has happened in similar situations in the rest of the world.

    Some premiers have been to Washington. Some premiers have spoken out on this issue. I leave it to those people over there, as other people have, to judge how successful their actions and their statements were.

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September 22, 2003

    Mr. Peter MacKay (Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, PC): Mr. Speaker, the beef industry is losing $11 million a day. That is over a total of $1 billion since it closed 124 days ago. Unbelievably, the Prime Minister today at the United Nations turned an occasion to build goodwill and trust into another insult to our biggest trading partner, the United States.

    Has the Prime Minister requested a specific meeting with the President of the United States to address this ongoing crisis in the cattle industry? Has he made that request and if not, why not?

    Hon. David Collenette (Minister of Transport, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has answered that question before. He has raised this issue with President Bush, and as my colleague, the Minister of Agriculture has said, every effort is being made to bring some normalcy to the situation.

    However the Prime Minister did in his speech today talk about the inclusiveness, the democracy, the openness and shared opportunities for prosperity and how we can work together to fight terrorism. I would have hoped the hon. member would have focused on the positive aspects and the Canadian values the Prime Minister outlined in his speech rather than ask once again about the Prime Minister's conversations with the President, which he has already answered.

    Mr. Peter MacKay (Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, PC): Mr. Speaker, with his usual tact and impeccable timing, the Prime Minister has turned an occasion to address this situation head on into another insult to our biggest trading partner; a slight on our biggest trading partner; a stick in the eye. This type of diplomacy will not help the Canadian cattle industry.

    I ask this again. Has he taken the occasion to set up a specific meeting to speak with the U.S. President about opening the border or will he continue to slough this off and wait for it to resolve itself?

    Hon. David Collenette (Minister of Transport, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, it is hardly a slight to the United States when the Prime Minister goes to the United Nations and talks about expanding opportunities, sharing prosperity, reducing the growing disparity between rich and poor and promoting and encouraging economic security as a means of promoting global security.

    All these things the Prime Minister said in his speech. These are noble sentiments that express the true worth of Canadians and they were expressed at the United Nations.

    Ms. Pauline Picard (Drummond, BQ): Mr. Speaker, this morning the Quebec agriculture minister met with her federal counterpart concerning the addition of a second phase to the financial assistance program for companies affected by the mad cow crisis.

    Can the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food tell us whether the federal government intends to add a second phase to the existing plan, as his Quebec counterpart is demanding?

[English]

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I have made it very clear that we have hundreds of millions of dollars available to assist farmers across the country, including beef farmers. We need to move that money and use that money first.

[Translation]

    Ms. Pauline Picard (Drummond, BQ): Mr. Speaker, although there was not a single case of mad cow disease in Quebec, Quebec farmers have been victims of the problems experienced in Alberta. Quebec beef farmers have also been hit.

    Will the minister acknowledge that they deserve assistance?

[English]

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I hope it is not the policy of this House to start pointing fingers at specific provinces where something happens. We are a country and the country is called Canada. In this case, the animal was in one province of this country.

    The OIE, and no other country, has regionalized countries. When a reportable disease takes place in a country, unfortunately the whole country is recognized as having that. We have worked on that, but so has the whole country been recognized and, for the first time ever, had our markets opened up to us even though we did have one case.

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September 19, 2003

    Mr. Howard Hilstrom (Selkirk—Interlake, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the trade minister. For many years the Canadian Cattlemen's Association has repeatedly called on the government to implement the year-round access for American feeder cattle. In fact there was a key resolution at the Canadian cattlemen's convention this summer.

    The minister states that he listens and takes the advice of the Canadian Cattlemen's Association. Will the government immediately implement year-round access for American feeder cattle?

    Hon. Pierre Pettigrew (Minister for International Trade, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the government works very closely with the cattlemen, indeed on any export permits that we grant. On imports we have been working with them through the summer. We have brought in far more stringent regulations precisely to help our cattlemen throughout this difficult summer. I intend to continue discussing with them any changes to our policy. We have been in close discussions with them.

    Mr. Howard Hilstrom (Selkirk—Interlake, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the government is always saying that disease issues are the reason we will not allow American cattle to come in here. The Canadian cattlemen have stated unequivocally that disease issues are not a threat to the Canadian cattle industry by having these feeder cattle come in. American cattlemen see the year-round access for their feeder cattle as an essential ingredient of a fair, equitable, integrated North American cattle industry.

    Why does the minister not realize that fair treatment of our American neighbours will speed up the day that we have a fully open U.S. border for our cattle?

    Hon. Pierre Pettigrew (Minister for International Trade, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, it has been a top priority for our government to maintain that integrated North American economy and industry. We have been working with the Americans very closely. We have made sure that the decisions we were making would not threaten the integrated North American industry that exists.

    We are very confident that we will continue the good work of finishing the job of opening the American border. This country is the first BSE affected country to ever see an international border reopened to it and that is because of the United States.

    Hon. Lorne Nystrom (Regina—Qu'Appelle, NDP): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the acting prime minister.

    Unfortunately, as many as 650,000 cattle may have to be killed because of restrictions on Canadian beef exports. Those cattle older than 30 months cannot be exported and therefore have a lower market value because of the lack of market in our country. These cattle are an acting time bomb for the industry.

    Could the acting prime minister tell the House what the government has planned, to deal with a national cattle cull, and how this cull strategy will be financed?

    Hon. Don Boudria (Minister of State and Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the position that has just been expressed by the hon. member is not even the position of the Canadian Cattlemen's Association.

    I will read from its press release of September 10, 2003, in which it says that Canadians are proving their confidence in buying Canadian beef and that this support would be jeopardized if the cattle industry were to advocate a massive cull of cattle.

    That is not the position of the industry at all and that is not what it has said.

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September 18, 2003

    Mr. Rick Casson (Lethbridge, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, on Tuesday the parliamentary secretary indicated the BSE issue was solved and said the job is done, the border is open. That is absolutely absurd. We cannot run a multi-billion dollar industry through a two foot gate on a 3,500 mile fence. It just will not work.

    We have asked for four months, and I am asking again, what conditions is the United States Department of Agriculture demanding of Canada before the border really opens?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I remind the hon. member he should be thanking this government and thanking the United States for opening their border to the extent that they have. It is the first time in history that any non-BSE country has accepted beef products from a country that has BSE. They have opened it for boneless beef and they are expediting the process, as the secretary of agriculture in the United States said to the press yesterday, in order to move forward to allow the movement of live cattle under 30 months going direct to slaughter. Now they are expediting that process.

    Mr. Rick Casson (Lethbridge, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, this summer I was in Washington with my leader fighting for the Canadian cattle industry and one issue was very clear. Until the Canadian border opens to year round access to U.S. feeder cattle, their border will remain closed to ours.

    This has been a hang-up to the Canadian cattle industry for 10 years. We know this is the single issue that is keeping that border closed. Will the government listen to Canadian producers, reverse its position, get that border open and get it open now?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the single issue that has closed that border was unfortunately the fact that we had one single animal. It is a health issue and that is what we have to deal with. We are going by the guidelines of the Office International des Épizooties. They are following those guidelines. They have even moved past those to recognize the system that we have and the quality of beef we have in Canada. For that initial movement we are very thankful and we look forward to further opening of the border.

    Mr. Peter Adams (Peterborough, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food. The minister has worked valiantly to help farmers affected by the BSE crisis, which now affects the entire country.

    In my riding the export of live animals is of particular concern. Can the minister bring the House up to date on this? Has there been progress for the beef, sheep, goat and other farmers whose livelihoods have been hit by this crisis?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, as the Prime Minister and all of us are informed, we know that the opening of the border to meat as far as we have at the present time by Mexico and the United States is a precedent. It has never happened before in this type of situation to accept product from a BSE country.

    I met again last week with the secretary of the United States and the secretary of Mexico. They both promised me that they would expedite the process in order to move live animals into their respective countries. I am confident that they will do that. When that happens that will apply to all ruminants at that time.

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September 17, 2003

    Mr. Gerry Ritz (Battlefords—Lloydminster, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, yesterday the parliamentary secretary for agriculture said that with the border open a crack the crisis is over.

    The agriculture minister thinks since he threw around a few dollars livestock producers are saved. Guess what, both of them are wrong and both need new jobs.

    Farmers are on Parliament Hill today to ask questions of their AWOL minister. When will he accept the industry's recommendations and announce phase two and the budget to implement it? When will the minister do that?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I wish to thank Canadians and all the members in the House for supporting the beef industry this summer. We know the situation that has been created in the beef industry.

    I also want to say and point out to the hon. member that it was only a very few weeks after the situation that the government came forward with over $300 million. There are hundreds of millions of dollars more available to producers. Let us use that up and then we will see what more money we need after that. That is the goal that I have. Unfortunately, there has to be agreements to allow that to flow. We will do that.

    Meanwhile we will continue to work on opening the borders more than they are open at the present time.

    Mr. Gerry Ritz (Battlefords—Lloydminster, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the minister stays true to form. He always ignores the victims in this. He is forgetting about the farm and ranch families, the real folks out there, and the livestock producers. The primary producers are left hanging out to dry.

    Why does the minister always put his own political agenda ahead of these producing families?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we have spent $560 million between the federal government and the provincial governments since June. There are hundreds of millions of dollars available in the programs that we have for the farmers. That money can flow to the farmers in interim payments as soon as the signatures are there to allow it to flow.

    The United States, Mexico and other countries have recognized the food safety system that we have in Canada. These countries have begun to open their borders. The United States is expediting the process to open its border to live cattle under 30 months of age. We will continue working with all those countries.

    Mr. Peter MacKay (Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, PC): Mr. Speaker, there should be no greater priority in the country right now for the government than addressing the BSE crisis and getting the border open. It has been 120 days since the nightmare began. The government has been ineffective and unable to get the border open.

    I would like to ask the Prime Minister or the Deputy Prime Minister if the government is willing to participate in a non-partisan effort to send a delegation to Washington with stakeholders to get the border open for Canadian cattle.

    Hon. John Manley (Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I agree with the hon. member that there has been no priority of greater significance to the government.

    Since the outbreak of BSE we have been trying to deal with the crisis that was created. Let us understand that it is not the Canadian border that is closed. The Canadian border is open. It is the borders of our partners in trade that are closed.

    At every level of the government, the Minister of Agriculture, the Prime Minister, myself and other counter-colleagues have dealt with our counterparts again and again. We have met with some success but more is sought. We will not rest until the border is open.

    Mr. Peter MacKay (Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, PC): Mr. Speaker, where was the Deputy Prime Minister, where was the House leader, where was the Prime Minister and where was the agriculture minister a few hours ago when farmers from the Ottawa valley gathered on the front lawn of Parliament? They wanted to hear from their representatives. They wanted to hear from the government.

    What exactly is the plan? What is being done to open the border? Why were there no representatives of the Liberal Party on the steps of Parliament to answer to the people they are supposed to represent?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I do not know where the Liberal Party was nor where we will be. We told that group yesterday that we would meet with them, the rural caucus and myself, this afternoon. We will meet with representatives later this afternoon. We have done that all along and we will continue.

    As far as opening the border, the hon. member should recognize what our industry has done, what our food inspection agency has done and what members on all sides of the House have done. They have pointed out to the United States, and Canadians have said, that Canadian beef is safe. It is the first time in history that any non-BSE country has opened up to a product from a BSE country. I guess they forgot that.

    Mr. Bill Blaikie (Winnipeg—Transcona, NDP): Mr. Speaker, the mark of a good Minister of Agriculture is that we should be able to find a certain substance on his boots, not in what he said when he gets up in the House of Commons.

    The fact is that the Minister of Agriculture was a no-show today and has been a no-show all summer for the people in the cattle industry.

    Therefore I will address my question to the Deputy Prime Minister. When is the government going to get it and do something for farmers instead of just resting until the border is open?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the hon. member is saying that $300 million on top of the other support that is there for Canadian farmers is a small amount of money.

    Certainly we know they would like more. There are hundreds of millions of dollars more that the government wants to move to Canadian farmers but we must have the legal authority to do so.

    I have had the signing authority since April to do that for the provinces and for the producers in the provinces. Let us use that money up. We have partially opened the borders to Canada and Mexico and some other countries. Their borders are closed and they are the ones that need to open them. We have shown them the science and they are reacting.

    Mr. Howard Hilstrom (Selkirk—Interlake, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, roughly 800,000 cows and bulls over 30 months of age are normally culled and sent to slaughter every year. We can consume about one-half of them domestically. We cannot export the other half. Disposal of these excess animals is a major unresolved problem. What is the government's plan for disposal of these excess animals?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, some time ago, even before the BSE situation, I put in place a beef round table. It has participants from the industry, from the processors and from the consumers. They have been meeting on a regular basis and have spent considerable time with provincial, federal and industry people recently, talking about the ways which we can develop to use this good meat in a beneficial way. We will be working with the industry to do that.

    In the meantime, again I say, let us move the money that we have there in order to assist our producers until we further assess all this and develop the programs and products in order to use this good quality meat.

    Mr. Howard Hilstrom (Selkirk—Interlake, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, more failure by the minister.

    The fall roundup is starting right now. Cull animals are being separated out every day. They cannot be sold for enough to cover transportation and selling costs. Ranchers cannot afford to feed them. The government's lack of action will force the ranchers to shoot and bury them on the ranch rather than feed them.

    Why, four months into this economic crisis, this social crisis, has the government done absolutely nothing?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I want to point to out to the hon. member, to the House and to all Canadians that because of the efforts of everybody, of governments, individual Canadians and organizations and our food chains, grocery stores and retailers in Canada, in the first two or three weeks after the one animal was found, we only slaughtered about 23,000 to 25,000 animals a week in Canada. In the last week in August we moved that up to 73,000 animals a week, which is more than we were slaughtering before the situation occurred back in May.

    That is the approach that we will continue to take to find markets and uses for the good Canadian beef that has been recognized by all Canadians and that is being recognized by our customers in the world.

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September 16, 2003

    Mr. Peter MacKay (Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, PC): Mr. Speaker, last evening I attended a meeting of area farmers in St-Albert, Ontario, who are concerned over the ongoing ban of beef that is keeping their product from the market. The border is still not open and farmers' lives are at stake. Their livelihoods are being lost because they cannot move their cattle. Their entire lives and way of life is at threat.

    The Prime Minister is scheduled to be in New York for a meeting at the UN. Will he request, will he intelligently and intensely make the case on behalf of Canadian farmers to open the border to Canadian cattle?

    Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I have always done that with the President and other people at the White House with whom I have had the occasion to meet. I think that I will have occasion to meet with President Bush. Whenever I talked with him he had always said and agreed with me that this had to be based on a scientific basis.

    I wish to report that the only country that has managed to go back into the American market after having a case of mad cow is Canada. The beef has started to move but not fast enough and we are keeping the pressure on the American government.

    Mr. Peter MacKay (Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, PC): Mr. Speaker, the beef is moving at a trickle across the border. That answer is not good enough.

    I challenge the Prime Minister to give that type of drivel to the farmers who are going to gather on the lawn here tomorrow. The Prime Minister has to get active on this file. If he is not going to get active, maybe he should back to 24 Sussex and start packing. There are people in this country who need his government's help, need his leadership.

    When is he going to actively engage in this file and help Canadian farm families?

    Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I have been extremely active with this file. We have put in more than half a billion dollars to help the farmers who are affected by this ban of the export of beef and we are doing our best with the American government. Ministers raise that all the time. I did that all the time.

    I talked with the ambassador here about it many times. The Canadian ambassador in Washington raises this matter all the time. Ambassador Cellucci has said, “The relationship is in very good shape. We are working each and every day. We are making progress”. When the ambassador says that we are working well with them on all the files, I think that this--

    The Speaker: The hon. member for Winnipeg—Transcona.

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September 15, 2003

Mr. Peter MacKay (Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, PC): Mr. Speaker, the government has picked up where it left off in the spring, mired in scandal, infighting and under investigation by the RCMP. What is really scandalous is the way it has handled some of the big crises in the country, whether it be softwood lumber, SARS or BSE.

    In July I wrote to the Prime Minister and I invited him to lead an all party delegation to Washington to personally intervene on behalf of farmers and those stakeholders affected by the BSE crisis.

    Will the Prime Minister commit to personally intervening in this file on behalf of all farmers and Canadians being affected by the ban on Canadian beef?

    Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I have done it. I have talked with the President and with other officials of the administration. The Minister of Agriculture did such a good job on this file that even the provincial government of a different colour, the Conservative Premier of Alberta, has congratulated the Minister of Agriculture because he has done a very good job on behalf of farmers of Canada.

    Mr. Peter MacKay (Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, PC): Mr. Speaker, it is obviously not enough because there are still hundreds of thousands of Canadians being affected by the partial ban on Canadian beef.

    I ask the Prime Minister again. Will he personally involve himself in this file? Will he endorse or lead an all party delegation to Washington with stakeholders to make those face to face representations to the Americans to help lift that ban on beef, or will he stay in 24 Sussex and just wait out his time?

    Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member did a bit of reading, he would understand that there has been only one country that has had cases of mad cow that has managed to sell into the American market. Take the British for example. They have not been able after a year to sell one pound of beef to the American market. We have managed to reopen the market within weeks.

Mr. Dick Proctor (Palliser, NDP): Mr. Speaker, the mad cow crisis continues to threaten the livelihood of tens of thousands of farmers, ranchers and packing house workers throughout Canada. The federal response has been half-hearted at best. The BSE recovery program ended last month but the hurt and devastation remain, especially for the smaller operator. Cattle on pasture when the borders first closed are returning to barns and feedlots, with higher maintenance costs.

    Would the Prime Minister please inform the beef industry what his government is going to do and when, before we witness the utter devastation of the Canadian beef industry?

[Translation]

    Mr. Claude Duplain (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I want to mention here that the minister and his team did an extraordinary job. This is the first time anywhere that, 100 days after the disease was detected, the borders have reopened so that meat can be sold.

    To date, the measures taken in the first phase total $460 million. The second phase is estimated at $57 million. The situation continues to be evaluated in order to help farmers. This is proof that the government is addressing this issue.

Mr. Gerry Ritz (Battlefords—Lloydminster, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, since May of this year the Canadian livestock industry has been reeling from the impact of a single BSE infected cow. All the stakeholders in the provinces agree there was and continues to be a lack of leadership at the federal level.

    When will the agriculture minister abandon his heavy-handed attempt to force his APF strategy on the provinces and concentrate on resolving the BSE crisis?

[Translation]

    Mr. Claude Duplain (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I would like to reiterate what the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food achieved by working hard with his colleagues.

    This is the first time we have managed to reopen a border to trade. Several millions of dollars have been invested in trying to rebuild the industry.

    Consultations will continue to try to find ways in which to assist the farmers even more. I do not think that consultations are useless at this time.

[English]

    Mr. Gerry Ritz (Battlefords—Lloydminster, Canadian Alliance): There you have it, Mr. Speaker, some more of that BS package that they were spouting all summer.

    The minister knows his April fool's joke contains no provisions that will address a crisis like the BSE outbreak. Farmers and ranchers reject the APF as again too bureaucratic and off target. Using their own calculations, farmers will receive even less support from the Liberal government than they have in the past.

    Why will the minister not sit down with the producers and provinces and actually work at resolving this crisis before he cripples another industry?

[Translation]

    Mr. Claude Duplain (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, that is totally untrue. The new strategic plan will provide farmers with tools to receive all the support necessary. As the provinces sign the framework agreement and we sign bilateral agreements, farmers will be able to benefit from them.

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June 13, 2003

    Mr. Charlie Penson (Peace River, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, I do not think bringing in the Rolling Stones is going to solve that problem.

    It is estimated that by next week, losses to the livestock industry will be over $1 billion due to the BSE scare. The beef industry has rejected the government's latest proposal, saying loans simply are not the answer. As they say, “You cannot borrow yourself out of trouble”.

    Now it appears the government is using this disaster to blackmail the provinces into signing its agricultural policy framework. I ask the minister, will the government introduce a comprehensive compensation package outside of the APF?

    Hon. David Collenette (Minister of Transport, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, once again the opposition does not have the facts. There has been no proposal put on the table because the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food is meeting with his counterparts in Vancouver today to discuss this very issue and what can be done.

    Certainly ministers on this side of the House have been working on this particular matter under the leadership of the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food for the last number of days. I am certain that the discussions in Vancouver will help the situation and help deal with the very terrible crisis that is faced by producers and others in the country.

    Mr. Charlie Penson (Peace River, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, that is part of the problem. No proposal will be put on the table. It has been almost a month since this scare started to affect beef producers and it is an economic loss to the livestock industry.

    The president of the Canadian Cattlemen's Association says the minister's BSE compensation plan for loan guarantees is like throwing a rock to a drowning man. The industry needs cash, not more debt.

    I ask again, will the government commit to an immediate cash injection for the feedlot industry that is losing millions of dollars a day?

    Hon. David Collenette (Minister of Transport, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, as I have said, all of these issues are under discussion today in Vancouver.

    The hon. member should recognize that the preoccupation of the Government of Canada and the provincial governments and especially my colleague the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food is to deal with the science in this case to ensure that people are well aware that there is no hazard from other animals being infected. The science is now conclusive and is now being analyzed by our friends in the United States. This leads us to some optimism that the border will be opened in the near future.

    Mr. Yvan Loubier (Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, BQ): Mr. Speaker, farmers are exasperated by the federal government's inability to defend their interests. Tomorrow, in Saint-Hyacinthe, farmers will be meeting with the Liberal Party leadership candidates to remind them that they are still waiting for support measures for the cattle industry, which has been hard hit by the U.S. embargo.

    While the crisis continues and the investigation is at a standstill, can the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food assure us that he will not use this crisis to shove his policy framework down the throats of Quebec farmers?

    Mr. Claude Duplain (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I have been saying this for a long time. The Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food would never want to use this case to get the policy framework signed.

    I would like to thank the hon. member for his question because I would like to reiterate what the Minister of Transport said earlier. Currently, the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food is in discussion with his provincial counterparts in Vancouver in order to address the whole cattle crisis.

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June 12, 2003

    Mr. Jay Hill (Prince George—Peace River, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, we can see how seized they are, they cannot even listen to the question.

    For weeks the government has avoided dealing with the ban on Canadian beef saying that it has to wait for the science. Well, the science is now done and yet the health minister and the public works minister have both said that the border remains closed “for other reasons”.

    Is the real reason the border remains closed that the Prime Minister refuses to call President Bush, or is it that he knows President Bush will not take his phone call?

    Hon. David Collenette (Minister of Transport, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the answer is no to the hon. member's question.

    Mr. Jay Hill (Prince George—Peace River, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, we still do not know “no” to which question. I suspect it is the latter and that he will not accept the call.

    The transport minister blames the government's inability to address important issues, such as SARS, mad cow disease and softwood lumber, on the fact that his government is now in transition. The treasury board minister said that governing has become more difficult and will likely only get worse.

    The Prime Minister's own cabinet now seems to understand what the Prime Minister does not, that he is the problem and not part of the solution. Canadians deserve much better.

    Will the Prime Minister now step down, or are Canadians doomed to spending another summer watching his party trying to get rid of him?

    Hon. David Collenette (Minister of Transport, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, perhaps the hon. member has been so far back behind the curtains over there that he has not seen what this government has done in the last six months, with an outstanding budget and an active legislative agenda, led by the Prime Minister and culminating in the passage of Bill C-42. We are 100% behind the Prime Minister and the legislative program of this party and this government.

    Mr. Howard Hilstrom (Selkirk—Interlake, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, yesterday the agriculture minister denied that he was blackmailing the provinces into signing the agriculture policy framework. Today he confirmed that unless the provinces sign on there will be no compensation for the beef industry. In my books, that is blackmail and it is shameful.

    Why will the agriculture minister not provide a compensation package outside of the APF?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the hon. member who just asked the question was very vocal about the previous disaster program that we had and said that it needed to be replaced with something better. That is what we have done, at the wish of not only the opposition but lots of people in the industry. That program is there.

    As the hon. member said, the previous program was no good and we wanted to replace it with something better. The third party review has said that what is there to replace it is much better than what was there in the past. I am sure that when the industry understands that fully it will be signing and it will be asking respective ministers to sign it, as some ministers already have and more will be tomorrow.

    Mr. Howard Hilstrom (Selkirk—Interlake, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, auction markets across Canada remain closed. Neither feedlot operators nor cow-calf ranchers are able to move their animals to export. A staged opening of the U.S. border to young animals is the most likely scenario. That will mean older, grass fed cows will not be able to be sold unless they go into the domestic market.

    What is the government doing to work with the beef industry to ensure there is a domestic market for these culled cows that cannot be exported?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member knows full well, being a beef producer himself, the domestic market is only so large. The best approach, but not our only approach, is to get the market open so we can ship not only the younger beef but also the older animals to those markets where they have been slaughtered and processed in the past.

    In the meantime, we also fully understand the pressure, both financial and otherwise, on the beef industry in Canada and we will be working with the provinces and the industry to alleviate that.

    Mr. Dick Proctor (Palliser, NDP): Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Agriculture knows that cattlemen indicated very clearly last week that interest-free loans simply will not cut it, yet a story that has just moved on the Canadian Press wire says that the federal government is set to present a mad cow aid package to beef farmers: interest-free loans to beef farmers, feedlot operators and renderers.

    Could the Minister of Agriculture please confirm that this is the case and would he tell us what else is being planned by the federal department of agriculture to assist people in the beef industry?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, as I said in the House yesterday, we are looking at a number of things. Certainly we are working very diligently to get the border open, which is our first choice, but we also know that we need to do a combination of other things using existing programs, and yes, maybe looking at helping the industry through some sort of a loan program to help with cash flow through this situation that they are in as well. But we are looking at a number of issues, not just one specific one.

    Mr. Scott Reid (Lanark—Carleton, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the BSE scare has led to an American ban on all ruminants, not just beef but also sheep and lambs. This is no small issue. In 2002 alone, 148,000 head of sheep were exported to the U.S.A., but with this market shut down, prices are in steep decline.

    During his press conference on June 4 and again in the emergency Commons debate, the agriculture minister failed to mention sheep even once. It is as if this industry does not exist in the minister's mind, so here is my question. When can we expect to see sheep and lambs included in the plan for piecemeal resumption of trade?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the hon. member knows full well that sheep are ruminants. The case of BSE was found in a cow, which is also a ruminant. In the rules and regulations if we change feed practices and getting our borders open to beef certainly includes any action that any country would take against any ruminant, and that is certainly the case from this side.

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June 11, 2003

    Mr. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, I must tell the Prime Minister that there really is growing concern and frustration among cattlemen and their families.

    They have been waiting weeks for test results to be completed. Those tests are apparently now completed, but our border with the United States remains closed. It is within the power of the U.S. administration to open the border and we believe it is incumbent upon the Prime Minister of the country to phone the President and try to get action on that.

    Will the Prime Minister do that or does he believe he has lost complete credibility with the U.S. government?

    Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, at this moment Canadian scientists are discussing the file with their counterparts in the United States. We must prove to them scientifically that everything is safe.

    At this moment the best course is to let the scientists resolve the problem among themselves. Of course, if there is a need at one time to speak with the President, I will be happy to do that. I have already discussed this problem with him when I was in Europe last week.

    Mr. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, that has been the government's line for weeks, that the science must be dealt with.

    We now believe that the science has been dealt with, but yesterday two of the Prime Minister's own cabinet ministers, the Minister of Health and the Minister of Public Works, suggested science was not the issue. They suggested that somehow there were issues beyond science.

    Can the Prime Minister tell us what they were talking about? Were they talking about the Prime Minister's bad relations with the United States?

    Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we must be very careful when there is a question of public safety. The member should recall the problem we had with P.E.I. potatoes for a number of years. I spoke with the President time and time again. The Americans were using the health problem to ban potatoes.

    At this moment it is very important not to make a mistake. Our people must convince their counterparts in the United States on a scientific basis first.

    Of course, if there is a need for me to speak to the President, I will be happy to speak with him and I am sure that he will be happy to speak with me.

    Mr. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, there is a need to talk to the President. The Prime Minister had time to give no less than two press scrums on what the President was doing wrong with domestic policy in the United States. He can have a second conversation on this issue with the President.

    For two weeks we have been told the science would be done and the borders would be opened. The science is now done and it is the responsibility of the Prime Minister to get answers.

    Can the Prime Minister tell us with any degree of specificity what exactly is the new criteria that Canada must meet to get the borders open?

    Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we must assure everybody that there is no disease in Canada. It was only one cow and the system worked well. We have acted very diligently. Scientists, who came from other nations, have looked at the file and complimented the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food and the people working on the file from the Government of Alberta for having moved quickly.

    That is the way to deal with it, not try to score political points. We must do it in a responsible way.

    Mr. Howard Hilstrom (Selkirk—Interlake, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the beef industry is being held hostage and denied immediate financial compensation in an attempt to force the provinces to sign on to the agriculture policy framework. As of today eight provinces have not signed on to the APF.

    I find it incredible that the government would use the beef industry and abuse it in this way.

    My question is for the Minister of Agriculture. Why is the government blackmailing the provinces into signing the agriculture policy framework?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we are not blackmailing anyone into doing anything. As of the end of December last year, the old program, the Canadian farm income protection program, which the opposition did not like and others did not like, ceased to exist.

    We worked with the provinces and the industry, and we have developed a new program that is more effective and goes deeper into disaster situations than the old program did. That is there for the farmers to participate in. I am sure they want to do that.

    Mr. Howard Hilstrom (Selkirk—Interlake, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the Canadian Cattlemen's Association has stated at the agriculture committee that the agriculture policy framework would not handle a catastrophe, such as BSE where the border has been closed to the United States.

    All other major farm groups, including the Canadian Federation of Agriculture, have said the same thing.

    Why is the government not willing to provide immediate compensation to our feedlot industry that needs the cash today?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has already said that we are having those discussions with the industry and with the provinces. I will discuss those and the ideas and ways in which we can do that with ministers again on Friday.

    We very clearly understand the seriousness of this. We also understand the importance of scientists working initially to help us get the border open. A combination of all that is what is needed. Those are the efforts we are putting forward.

    Mr. David Chatters (Athabasca, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the plan of the industry and now the plan of the premiers for BSE compensation was delivered to the Prime Minister on June 9.

    Premier Campbell was not overstating the BSE economic crisis when he said, “If something is not done immediately, the feedlot industry as we know it will disappear”.

    Could the Prime Minister tell the House why he has not agreed to compensation in view of the fact that the APF cannot provide immediate help?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, there is no reason why the business risk management portion of the new program cannot provide immediate help. That is indeed very possible.

    As well I have said that we are looking into the possibility of interest free loans to help the industry's cash flows in this crisis. Along with that, we are working very diligently and the sectors are too to get the border open, which is even more important than all of the other. However, we need all of it.

    Mr. David Chatters (Athabasca, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the Alberta minister of agriculture, who has signed on to the APF, has stated that any BSE compensation package has to be a compliment to NISA and that NISA alone will not address this crisis.

    Why is the government refusing to offer immediate assistance to feedlot operators who are going broke?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is correct. NISA alone will not do it but the new program, which is a combination of the old NISA program and the disaster program, will do it. I had those discussions with the minister yesterday on a conference call, and she gave very strong indications that was one of the directions we needed to consider.

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June 10, 2003

    Mr. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, for weeks we have been urging the government to address the crisis in the beef industry. Industry has proposed a modest compensation package targeted at feedlots. The western premiers have agreed to pursue this kind of package. All we are doing now is waiting for the Prime Minister to get interested.

    I understand the Prime Minister is supposed to have spoken by telephone with the western premiers today. Could he tell us about that conversation and can he commit the federal government to get involved in this compensation package?

    Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I have not yet talked with the premier of British Columbia. I am supposed to talk with him later on this afternoon. We know that it is a very important and urgent problem and we are working diligently. We would like to collaborate with the provinces to deal with this crisis, because we both have responsibilities in the matter.

    Mr. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, we had the time this morning to start shoving Bill C-24 through the House. I wish we had the same urgency for beef farmers as we do for the Liberal Party coffers.

    The compensation that will be required will be a lot less if we get the borders open. We were told by the United States that when the science was complete the border would be open. The science is now complete, but the border remains closed. Has the Prime Minister yet called the president to get the criteria we will need to get the border with the United States open for our beef products?

    Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, when I met the president in Europe I mentioned this problem, informing him that we had one cow that had been affected. At that time we were waiting for the report from the scientists who came to Canada and who have issued their report today. The Minister of Agriculture has been in daily talks with his counterpart in the United States. We hope we will make progress on that, but it is up to the American administration to decide. The Minister of Agriculture has worked with great diligence on this file since the beginning.

    Mr. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, I am glad the president has had some conversation, but now that the science is complete I would really urge the Prime Minister to get on the phone and deal with this leader to leader for the sake of our industry.

    The longer the border remains closed, the greater the jeopardy that this will place our industry under and the greater the damage to our long term market share in the United States. Has the government considered and is it developing a package to promote and market Canadian beef products in the United States and abroad?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, just as soon as this happened we started working with our embassies and the industry, with the Beef Export Federation, with all of our embassies in the countries in which we trade beef, informing them of the situation and keeping them up to date as we went along. That science is now complete. We will continue to work with them and all of those in the export business in order to get all of our markets open as quickly as we possibly can.

    Mr. Bill Blaikie (Winnipeg—Transcona, NDP): Mr. Speaker, it is not easy to alienate Toronto and the west all at the same time, but the Prime Minister seems to be making a good job of it these days. Perhaps he wants to do what Brian Mulroney managed to do in his dying days in office.

    When will the Prime Minister put his surplus where his mouth is and come to the aid of the beef industry in western Canada and hospitality workers in Toronto? He has a surplus, use it to help Canadians who are in trouble?

    Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we have put forward elaborate programs and changes. Toronto is faced with this very difficult problem. The ministers have been involved on a daily basis on this very difficult file.

    On the question of the problem in the west, the Minister of Agriculture has been in touch with them, and I am to talk with the president of the conference of the premiers later on today. I am anxious to speak with him.

    Mr. Bill Blaikie (Winnipeg—Transcona, NDP): You could have fooled us, Mr. Speaker, that the Prime Minister is anxious to deal with these problems. Weeks have gone by with respect to SARS. Weeks are now going by with respect to mad cow disease. I say to the Prime Minister, through you Mr. Speaker, that this is a time for national leadership. It is a time for the Prime Minister to show that we are a Canadian family and that when people are in trouble, we help them.

    When will the government do something, not just talk, for people in Toronto and for people in the west who are affected by these various crises?

    Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, he is repeating the same argument that he made the first day. When we do something, they never recognize that we are doing something or we have done something. Rather than trying to find a concrete solution to very difficult problems, they just try to score some little political points.

    Mr. Howard Hilstrom (Selkirk—Interlake, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the scientific investigation turned out as expected. There is no more BSE in Canada. However we do have a trade and economic problem.

    The Prime Minister has talked about compensation coming from farm safety net programs, which is really a ridiculous statement. The producers cannot apply for those programs until 2004, and most of the provinces have not signed on to them.

    The western premiers are calling for $360 million for a three month emergency plan. Will the government commit to giving that money to those cattlemen in western Canada and across other parts of Canada?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the proposed business risk management program that is before the industry and the provinces could very conceivably pay out considerably more than $360 million because that is what the program will be there for, to cover and help in situations like this.

    We are also looking at ways in which we can help the industry cash flow and get through the immediacy of the circumstance as well.

    Mr. Howard Hilstrom (Selkirk—Interlake, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the agriculture minister better check with his own bureaucrats because they have said that is not true.

    I have a question with regard to opening the U.S. border. Dr. Ron DeHaven, the U.S. deputy administrator of veterinary services, has said that the report is fine and dandy so far but it might take them an awful long time to review it and get an answer.

    What assurances do Canadian farmers, ranchers and feedlot owners have that in fact the minister and the Prime Minister have a commitment from the United States Department of Agriculture that the review will not go on forever?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we got the conclusion of the science yesterday, and that review is going on. Today officials are discussing the results of that science with the Americans, as is the beef industry itself, the processing industry and the politicians. Everybody is involved in that.

    Now that we have the science, then that type of work can take place because we are on good ground. Can I guarantee exactly what the results will be from the United States? No. However I can say one thing. It is just not as simple, unfortunately, as telling them to raise the gate because the cattle cruisers and the reefers are coming through with beef. We have to work it out based on the science and their--

    The Speaker: The hon. member for Roberval.

    Mr. Rick Borotsik (Brandon—Souris, PC): Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food finds himself on the horns of a dilemma, or more appropriately on the horns of a mad cow. On March 23, 1990, the minister is quoted as saying:

 

If we look around the world it does not matter how a country is trying to survive, if it does not have a strong, viable, economically strengthened agriculture industry, then the economy and the future of that country is certainly in question.

    There is no doubt that the agriculture industry is in peril and that the economy of this country is in jeopardy.

    The dilemma is, does the minister help the industry or does he let it die? Or will he stop floating trial balloons and come up with real money for the cattle industry?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, as I have explained to the hon. member in committee, the strength of the proposed business risk management program has, along with the programs we have had in the past year, paid out over $2 billion to Canadian farmers because of situations beyond their control, be it drought, poor markets, or whatever.

    That program which is being offered now is even better than the programs that we have had in the past. We will work with the industry to build upon that in order to help the beef industry get through this situation.

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June 9, 2003

    Mr. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister is returning to the country in the midst of the mad cow crisis.

    Before the Prime Minister left the country he could not remember if he discussed the mad cow issue. Now, four weeks later the government still does not have a plan. Apparently it will be another two weeks before it is able to come up with any kind of compensation package to address the industry's problem.

    My question is very simple. Is the Prime Minister capable of understanding that this is an emergency and if he is not interested in doing his job, why does he not just leave office now?

    Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food has worked extremely diligently on this file. This morning we had a report by a group of international experts who reported that we have acted more diligently than any other government. They are complimenting the government for the action it has taken.

    We are very happy that there was only one cow that was affected. A lot of animals had to be destroyed because of that and, of course, we have programs within the government to deal with emergencies in the agriculture sector. We are looking at whether these programs can apply. If not, we will see what can be done on top of the existing programs that very often are agreed upon with the provincial governments.

    Mr. Peter MacKay (Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, PC): Mr. Speaker, this morning's promise of a future compensation package for farmers affected by BSE is another cynical attempt to pre-empt the western premiers' request for aid.

    The need for compensation is urgent and immediate. There is a product backlog and liquidity is the big issue.

    When will the government relax the two week waiting period for workers affected by the ban of Canadian beef and when will it provide a fair and immediate compensation package for farmers who cannot afford to feed their cattle?

    Hon. Jane Stewart (Minister of Human Resources Development, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the Government of Canada is treating Canadians, no matter where they live, fairly across the country.

    With regard to the waiving of the two week period associated with health realities associated with SARS, this has been applied equally across the country. Sixty-four Canadians in the western provinces are benefiting from it.

    We are aggressively working with employers and employees to implement flexible standards of the work-sharing provisions as well as ensure that we are processing employment insurance claims as quickly as possible, because we know individuals who are laid off need those benefits urgently.

    Ms. Libby Davies (Vancouver East, NDP): Mr. Speaker, while the Prime Minister is busy congratulating himself, the fact is the western beef industry is still in crisis and needs help now.

    Cattle producers are losing millions. Meat plant workers are losing their jobs. These people deserve more from their government than glib responses and buck-passing. They need help and they need it now.

    When will the Prime Minister wake up and give some substantive help that is needed to plant workers and to cattle producers in the country? They are in crisis. Does the Prime Minister understand that?

    Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we know that and we are working on it. As I said, we have federal and provincial programs very often working together to compensate farmers in difficulties.

    This situation is affecting people in Saskatchewan and Alberta. We are looking at what can be done to give them the proper access to the resources that are needed for them to get through this very difficult period.

    Mr. Howard Hilstrom (Selkirk—Interlake, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, operating cash has run out for the cattle industry and it is losing one of its main players, the feedlot industry.

    Contrary to what the Prime Minister has said, the agriculture policy framework does not work in this large financial crisis. Feedlot companies are not even covered by the APF.

    We know the cattle industry has developed a compensation package and it is supported by the western premiers. Why has this government not accepted the industry's proposal or come forward with one of its own?

[Translation]

    Mr. Claude Duplain (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister responded to this very well earlier. Government stakeholders, starting with the Minister of Agriculture, are working with industry people and the provinces to find a solution to this problem as quickly as possible.

[English]

    Mr. Howard Hilstrom (Selkirk—Interlake, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, representatives of the industry were down here last week and the government sent them home on Friday with nothing in their hands, not even a promise that it would do something. I do not accept that answer. What I want to see is the government stand and say that it intends to provide some financial help until that border is opened up and our exports start to flow again. Is there that commitment or not?

[Translation]

    Mr. Claude Duplain (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, as we said earlier, we are working very hard on this matter. I would like to know whether the member told his constituents that last week, while the committee was meeting with people from Saskatchewan, here they called for a vote to adjourn the House of Commons for the summer holiday. We missed the meeting.

    Mr. Gerry Ritz (Battlefords—Lloydminster, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, of the 2,000 animals that have been put down and tested, only one tested positive. The investigation was comprehensive. What has never been comprehensive are any specifics on any compensation package for the beef industry.

    Why do the Liberals always come up short on agricultural programs?

[Translation]

    Mr. Claude Duplain (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, there are compensation programs available for producers. As it has been said, right now the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food is in discussions to come up with other solutions for producers.

[English]

    Mr. Gerry Ritz (Battlefords—Lloydminster, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, it is always somebody else's fault. Time is of the essence here. Four weeks have dragged by and there are no plan, no specifics. The beef industry is fighting off bankruptcy on its own. There is no help from those guys. Two more weeks to study the findings, they say, and still no clear signal to the industry or to banks that help is on the way.

    What the heck is wrong with those guys? Do they not get it. Why are the Liberals always found lacking in any crisis?

[Translation]

    Mr. Claude Duplain (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we are not lagging in any crisis. We are in the process of studying these crises. While we are studying the matter, as I said earlier, the Canadian Alliance is calling for votes in the House to interrupt the meetings we are having with people in Saskatchewan to try to solve the problem.

    Ms. Pauline Picard (Drummond, BQ): Mr. Speaker, the impact of the U.S. ban on Canadian beef does not stop with the west. Quebec's meat producers are also affected, as are the meat-packing industry workers. A hundred or so of them have lost their jobs at the Levinoff plant in Montreal and another twenty-five at the Colbex abattoir in Drummondville, not to mention the hundreds of others whose jobs are threatened as well.

    Having helped the workers in Toronto affected by SARS, does the Minister of Human Resources Development plan to make available the same assistance to the Quebec workers who are victims of the beef crisis?

[English]

    Hon. Jane Stewart (Minister of Human Resources Development, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I would like to reiterate for the hon. member that the government will treat Canadians fairly no matter where they live. When it comes specifically to the Employment Insurance Act and its provisions, I would like to say to the hon. member that the government will be there, encouraging the use of work sharing and making sure that claims are processed as quickly as possible. We understand and appreciate the significant impact that this is having on Canadians across the country.

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June 6, 2003

    Mr. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, I want to ask about yet another disaster, and on this one we do not have endless time for more discussion and wrangling. This is the problem of course with mad cow and the beef industry.

    As I have indicated several times this week and as the government knows, feedlots are on the verge of bankruptcy. Hardship and worry is spreading throughout the industry and throughout sections of the industry, obviously through farm families.

    I understand the beef industry and members of it have presented a very reasonable, modest proposal for compensation assistance. When will we know from the government the details of its compensation plans for the beef industry?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member has said and he knows I have continually met with the industry, and on Wednesday in Edmonton. Officials from my department met with the beef industry yesterday. They will continue those discussions today. The meetings have gone very well.

    They are working on some support for the industry. I guess it is best to put it this way. One of the vice presidents of the Canadian Cattlemen's Association last night told me that they had excellent meetings yesterday.

    Mr. Dick Proctor (Palliser, NDP): Mr. Speaker, the government's insistence that any help for the cattle industry must come from existing programs is simply not defensible.

    The food inspection agency several years ago dismissed the possibility of mad cow disease in Canada, saying that it was a European disease. In other words, it could not happen here; except that it has.

    Loan guarantees from existing programs are not the answer. The cattle industry needs an understandable, bankable cash advance and it needs it PDQ. When will it receive it?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, as I said a few minutes ago, we had excellent meetings with the industry yesterday.

    The new business risk management program was the foresight of this government and it would be there to assist the industry when these types of things unfortunately happen. We are looking at other things to build upon that as well.

    I repeat, the cattlemen told me last night that the meetings yesterday were excellent.

    Mr. David Chatters (Athabasca, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the existing farm safety net programs cannot work for the current animal health crisis. The feedlot and packing industries need an immediate aid package that is bankable in days, not months. If it takes the government as long to get aid to the feedlots as it did to the lumber producers they will all be bankrupt and gone.

    When will the government announce an aid package to cover the BSE disaster?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I have already answered that question twice in the question period today. The industries have put proposals to us and we have had those discussions. The discussions have been ongoing and they are ongoing today.

    I am very optimistic that we will be able to not only use the new business risk management program, which is far more effective than we have had in the past, but also be able to put forward some additional help in order to help the industry get through this situation.

    Mr. Gary Schellenberger (Perth--Middlesex, PC): Mr. Speaker, the beef farmers of Perth--Middlesex are facing serious threats to their livelihood. Livestock disposal, laid off workers and financial hardships are big problems.

    Some of my constituents are facing bankruptcy. At $11 million a day, the cost of industry inaction is approaching $200 million. The borders are still closed.

    Will the Minister of Agriculture inform the House when Perth--Middlesex farmers and plant workers can expect financial assistance from the government?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, for the fourth time in this question period I will repeat that we are having excellent discussions with the industry.

    The government understands fully the effects of the finding of one cow with BSE and the fact that the one cow did not get into the food chain. We know we need to complete the science so that we can demonstrate, not only to our customers, to Canadians who are being very supportive, I must say, but to our international customers and to the world that we have a good system.

    In the meantime we will be there with existing programs and with other support to help the industry.

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June 5, 2003

    Mr. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, yesterday I again asked the government for the details of a compensation package for the beef industry and yesterday the government again refused to answer those questions.

    We are approaching an animal health disaster of epic proportions in this country. We have hundreds of thousands of cattle in feedlots. Those feedlots are within days, if not within hours, of going bankrupt.

    When will the industry get some details of the government's compensation package for dealing with this dire situation?

    Hon. David Collenette (Minister of Transport, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the hon. Leader of the Opposition has a talent for stating the obvious. Everyone knows how dire the situation is and that is why the Minister of Agriculture was in Alberta yesterday, working with people in the beef industry to find a lasting solution to this problem.

    Mr. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, I may have a talent for asking about the obvious, but the government sure has a talent for not answering.

    The government has apparently indicated that it is only prepared to look at this problem within existing programs. The existing APF is not designed to deal with the special circumstances of natural disaster. The WTO allows for special programs and the APF operates at glacial speed.

    Will the government commit to a compensation package that deals with the special circumstances of the natural disaster and the animal health disaster that we are facing here?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, there are a number of ways in which we can help the industry. One way the hon. Leader of the Opposition could help is to encourage the provinces and the farmers in those provinces to sign the implementation agreement so that there is a disaster program for farmers for this year. I have authority to sign that on behalf of the federal government. The provinces need to do that.

    We are also discussing with the industry, as I did yesterday and today, ways in which we, for example, can help it with interest-free cash loans and those types of things in order to help it work through the situation in which we are all involved today.

    Mr. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, this is a trade problem. Trade is the federal government's responsibility and it cannot pass the buck to the provinces.

    Let me move on to a detail I asked about yesterday. We all know that Canadian beef is the best beef in the world, but we know the damage this crisis is doing to our reputation. Yesterday I pointed out that the delay in solving this problem will do long term damage to the market share, permanent damage to market penetration of Canadians products.

    Will the government consider a compensation package to advertise, promote and market Canadian beef around the world?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member has said, the quality and safety of Canadian beef speaks for itself.

    We had a system that worked. We had one cow, which did not get into the food chain. The world is recognizing that. We need to complete the science so that we can clearly demonstrate not only to our biggest customer, the United States, but to the rest of the world that it was one isolated cow. That science is proceeding. We are not destroying any more animals than necessary. We need to complete that science and that is the only way we will solve this problem.

    Mr. David Anderson (Cypress Hills—Grasslands, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the government is not prepared to deal with this issue. Now the minister is trying to blackmail the provinces into signing the APF and is using this issue to do that.

    We have been patient. Producers have been patient. The beef industry has been patient, but that patience is running thin and frustration is rising. We want some specifics. Since there is no compensation plan, what conditions must be met to clear our Canadian beef for export?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I do not know how many times we have to explain it to the opposition. We have technical briefings every day. We need to complete the science.

    We had an approach and had an 85% expectation on the lineage of where the one cow came from. We have nearly completed the science. Out of 1,300 tests, 1,100 are back and they are all negative. Negative is good. We did not want to destroy any more animals to prove this science is necessary. Unfortunately, starting yesterday, we had to continue on another track in order to double-check and make sure, as is indicated so far, that--

    The Speaker: The hon. member for Cypress Hills—Grasslands.

    Mr. David Anderson (Cypress Hills—Grasslands, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, science has become the mantra of the minister. He thinks that if he keeps saying it long enough we are going to go away. That is not going to happen.

    For five years the elk industry has been buried under the heading of science and the government has avoided its responsibilities.

    This is a one cow crisis that seems to be turning into the excuse for a full-out trade barrier by the United States. Specifically, what are the Americans demanding from us before they will open the border to our beef?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I will say it again, it is the completion of the science so that we can demonstrate that we do not have any more mad cows in the country and that our system is there and that it works. When that is completed we will be able to lay that on the table in front of the United States and demonstrate that to the Americans. Then the discussions can take place on opening the border.

    Mr. Peter MacKay (Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, PC): Mr. Speaker, while the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food avoids giving straight answers on concerns over BSE, the Canadian cattle industry and our international trading partners are waiting for timely assurances.

    When will the government implement a national strategy to instill international and national confidence in Canadian beef and when will the minister announce a compensation package for those suffering the ill effects from this Canadian beef problem?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I met with members of the industry yesterday in Edmonton and those members are in Ottawa today discussing it with officials. Those discussions are ongoing today. We certainly, as I said earlier today, look forward to expressing to those in the industry how we will be able to help them get through this situation that they are in.

    Mr. Dick Proctor (Palliser, NDP): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the HRDC minister. Carrie Sanford has worked on the kill floor of XL Meats in Moose Jaw for the past 12 years. She is a single mother of two children and she is making less than $30,000 a year. She has taken her vacation pay and despite the minister talking about her officials proactively, next Monday Ms. Sanford is going to be laid off as a result of mad cow without an ounce of help or compassion from the government and she will have to wait two weeks before collecting EI.

    With a $10 billion surplus, why will the government not be helping Carrie and her children on Monday?

    Hon. Claudette Bradshaw (Minister of Labour, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is asking about a specific case. If he would like to send me the information, I will gladly send it to the minister and see if we can get an answer for him.

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    Mr. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the government's delays in dealing with the mad cow crisis are leading to a catastrophe in the beef industry. The acting Prime Minister admits that some of these delays are due to the Liberal leadership transition. This obviously has not been helped by the Prime Minister's gaffs in dealing with President Bush.

    On the latest delay, only now the government has begun testing a second line of cattle for mad cow, even though it knew about this line from the beginning.

    Why did the government wait weeks before testing the second line?

    Hon. David Collenette (Minister of Transport, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, contrary to what the Leader of the Opposition states, the government is seized with this particular issue. It cares about this issue. It cares about all those people whose lives have been disrupted, so much so that the Minister of Agriculture, this day, is in Alberta dealing with beef producers.

    I can assure the House that the government will be very sensitive to any solution that brings fairness and equity to all those affected.

    Mr. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister did not care enough to even remember whether he had a conversation with President Bush, and to deal with that relationship with prudence. He has been utterly irresponsible.

    The industry is now facing an emergency. The industry is losing millions of dollars daily. Families are in danger of losing their livelihoods. Cattle feeders, specifically, have said that they want to know what federal plan there will be and that they need to know by Friday.

    When can producers expect the details of the federal government's compensation package?

    Hon. Herb Dhaliwal (Minister of Natural Resources, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, first, the Minister of Agriculture has done a tremendous job on this file. He has been front and centre. In fact, even today he is meeting with the beef industry. He has been talking to his provincial counterparts. He has been talking to the secretary of agriculture in the United States. He has been on the front lines making sure we do everything we can to resolve this.

    What we are doing to make sure we have the science, we are having a full investigation. We hope by early next week we will have all that information so we can open the borders and continue to export our products across the world.

    Mr. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, at least we can give the minister credit for not praising the performance of the Prime Minister on this file. That does not, of course, answer the question, but I will move on.

    Even once the ban is lifted, the beef ban by the United States, there will be a permanent loss of market share. What will the government do about that? Will the compensation package include plans for the promotion and marketing of Canadian beef abroad?

    Hon. Herb Dhaliwal (Minister of Natural Resources, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, of course we are concerned with the effect on the industry. We are monitoring the situation. We are evaluating it.

    However, unlike the hon. member and his party, we do not believe we should be building firewalls across the country. We believe we should be building bridges and strong national solutions to problems such as this. That is why we are working on it and will continue to work on it.

    Mr. Peter MacKay (Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, PC): Mr. Speaker, speaking of delays, it took just one day, a single day, for the government to accept a proposal to buy luxury jets, approve the sale, issue a contract and take possession.

    Canadian farmers and plant workers are losing their livelihoods waiting for the government to debate and decide if the agriculture sector is indeed hurting.

    When will the government offer a compensation package for the cattle industry? Why can the government purchase luxury jets and have that deal go through in a day while farmers have to wait weeks?

    Hon. Herb Dhaliwal (Minister of Natural Resources, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I am sure the hon. member knows that there is a program for compensation for those herds that have to be depopulated. All the farmers will be able to get compensation for that.

    As far as a larger review, this is something that is ongoing. The situation is evolving. We need to have a good understanding. In fact, that is why the Minister of Agriculture today is in Alberta, to make sure that he meets with the beef industry, has that view and takes that view into consideration.

    This situation is being worked on. The Minister of Agriculture is on top of this issue to have a good understanding of what is needed to resolve some of these issues.

    Mr. Peter MacKay (Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, PC): Mr. Speaker, those ministers' assurances are not allaying fears across the country. We have to dispel any fears that it is unsafe to eat Canadian beef.

    Today, Republican Congressman Denny Rehberg called on Canada to reform its testing standards. He is not the only one troubled by our nearly four month delay in reporting the case. We saw the harm from the delay in the government reaction to SARS. We have seen the harm in the delay of the helicopter program. The minister's feeble response this morning does not cut it.

    When is the agriculture minister going to bring about the implementation of measures to expedite testing?

    Hon. Herb Dhaliwal (Minister of Natural Resources, Lib.): First of all, Mr. Speaker, Canada has the best testing system in the world within that framework.

    For the hon. member to question that, he should know better. He should not be standing up in the House and questioning a system that is recognized all over the world by the international community. He knows better. He should be speaking about the good work done.

    The Canadian Food Inspection Agency is recognized as the best in the world. It is doing everything possible to make sure there is a full investigation and let the scientists do their study so we can open the borders and give confidence to people around the world that Canadian beef is safe.

    Mr. Peter MacKay: I have no confidence, Herb. That is the problem.

    Mr. Bill Blaikie: Relax, Peter.

    The Speaker: I am quite relaxed. The hon. member for Winnipeg--Transcona has the floor.

    Mr. David Anderson (Cypress Hills—Grasslands, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the BSE saga continues. The Canadian Food Inspection Agency has commissioned three international experts from the United States, Switzerland and New Zealand to issue a report on our response to BSE and to address the issue of the safety of Canada's beef supply.

    Could the minister tell us what are the terms of reference for those experts and their future report?

    Hon. Herb Dhaliwal (Minister of Natural Resources, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I will certainly bring the question to the attention of the Minister of Agriculture who, as members know, is meeting with representatives of the beef industry to make sure they have their input. I will make sure that the hon. member gets a comprehensive response from the Minister of Agriculture.

    Mr. David Anderson (Cypress Hills—Grasslands, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, it is unbelievable that there is not a spokesman in the House who can deal with this issue. The CFIA has stated that these individuals will be asked to validate the Canadian actions and to determine whether policy adjustments are warranted.

    Could the minister tell the House if the reopening of the border is contingent on the findings of the team from the United States, New Zealand and Switzerland?

    Hon. Herb Dhaliwal (Minister of Natural Resources, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, as the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food has stated before, we need to make sure we do the science. That is exactly what we are doing. It is on sound science that we will be able to convince the international community and the U.S. that this was an isolated case. So far we have only found one cow that was infected with BSE; no other animal has been found. It is something we are looking at.

    As I said in my earlier response, we hope that next week all the tests will be done so that we can start moving our product to our markets around the world and into the U.S. That is what the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food is doing right now.

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    Mr. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, while the Liberal leadership campaign transition continues to drag on and the Prime Minister jets around the world making verbal gaffes, the bills are starting to pile up for Canadians. We are now over two weeks into the mad cow crisis that has shut down the beef industry costing farmers millions of dollars and putting thousands of Canadian jobs at risk.

    Can anyone in the government tell us when we can expect the ban on the importation of Canadian beef to be lifted?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, a few minutes ago I had another conversation with U.S. secretary Ann Veneman. Those who have watched the technical briefing today are aware of the fact that because we did not receive some DNA matching there is a 15% chance that the lineage of the case animal was in another line.

    We are therefore going to have to do testing on that line. That will take another three or four days before that science is done. We will need that science, as we have said all along, not only to prove it to the United States but to the OIE and others.

    Mr. Peter MacKay (Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, PC): Mr. Speaker, the U.S. market has been closed to Canadian cattle exports now for two weeks. The industry is losing $11 million a day.

    When we add up the cost to workers on the farm, in the processing plants or driving the trucks that carry the beef across the border, that total rises to a staggering amount of over $420 million.

    Could the acting Prime Minister tell the House why he is against providing much needed financial assistance to the literally thousands of Canadians whose livelihoods are at stake?

    Hon. David Collenette (Minister of Transport, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, obviously the situation is very dire for the industry. The government certainly sympathizes with all those affected, and the Minister of Agriculture has made those views well known.

    We are assessing the situation. We are certainly mindful of the damage that is being done and we do not preclude any action.

    Mr. Peter MacKay (Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, PC): Mr. Speaker, I am sure those sympathies are appreciated but it has come to light that an influential U.S. cattlemen's association has written to American politicians urging that the American government extend its ban on Canadian beef for up to seven years. This would have a devastating impact on the Canadian economy.

    If the government can afford to waste billions of dollars on a useless long gun registry, contract cancellations and massive government mismanagement, why can it not heed the advice of the Canadian Cattlemen's Association and compensate Canadian farmers for their losses as a result?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we are working very closely with the Canadian Cattlemen's Association and all those involved in the beef value chain. I met with the beef roundtable.

    The hon. member needs to know that the best compensation for our industry is an open border between Canada and the United States, and that is our primary concern.

    The government recognizes the situation fully and we will be there with and for our industry in every way we possibly can in order to help all of us and our economy get through this issue.

    Mr. Monte Solberg (Medicine Hat, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, we have word today that another herd has been quarantined to further guarantee that mad cow disease has been held in check. Unfortunately, quarantining a herd at this late date cannot help but set back attempts to reopen the Canada-U.S. border.

    Why is it taking so long to identify and quarantine herds that have been in contact with the one and only animal to test positive for mad cow?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I believe it was explained in the technical briefing by officials at 1 o'clock today. The information just came to us that there had been co-mingling between one herd that had already been quarantined. That information just came forward. In order to complete the science and consider the necessary testing, that had to happen.

    Mr. Monte Solberg (Medicine Hat, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the question was: Why did it take so long?

    All these delays are enormously costly. Meat packers, cattle feeder operations, everybody is suffering deep losses right now. The minister has said that he has approached cabinet for a compensation package. Producers and feeders have to know whether compensation is coming and, if it is, in what form.

    When will the minister release the details of his mad cow compensation package? When will we hear it?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, as has already been stated by the Minister of Transport, cabinet and the government are discussing it. We are also discussing it with the industry and with provincial governments.

    I will repeat that the best compensation is an open border. We are concentrating on that, but we are not ignoring the other aspects of the seriousness of this to the industry

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    Mr. Grant Hill (Macleod, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the mad cow outbreak has had a devastating effect on a national industry in Canada, losing millions of dollars. Many of the provinces are frustrated by the lack of federal leadership from our Prime Minister.

    The Prime Minister has reportedly met with President Bush twice in the last few days. Could the Deputy Prime Minister tell us whether or not he has finally remembered to bring up the issue of mad cow?

    Hon. John Manley (Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, at this point I think both heads of government are dealing with the issue in the appropriate way, which is that there are extensive discussions and consultations going on between the two levels of government.

    The presence here and assistance of U.S. representatives has been helpful in planning the ongoing process. I think we will be awaiting the continued development of the response based on science until the appropriate intervention point arises.

    Mr. Grant Hill (Macleod, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, from that answer I would say the Prime Minister has not said a single word about mad cow to the President of the United States.

    Four hundred workers in my riding at Cargill have just been laid off. The government seems to believe that they can just be abandoned.

    My question is specific. Will the government suggest the two week waiting period for employment insurance be relaxed for those people who lose their jobs due to this serious problem with BSE?

    Hon. John Manley (Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I think that the hon. member ventures down a path which could cause some very great difficulties. I think the distinction between enabling people to voluntarily go into quarantine in circumstances which arose in the context of the SARS outbreak is quite different from people who are experiencing layoffs due to business conditions.

    I would urge the member to think of the implications of eliminating the two week waiting period for all Canadians, because in fact, there is no reason to distinguish at that point among anyone or any reason for layoff.

    Mr. Grant Hill (Macleod, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, an outbreak is an outbreak.

    Thousands of animals are ready for market and there just now is no market. While the industry is on hold, thousands of workers are losing their jobs. The government could easily remove the two week EI waiting period.

    The Liberal government was quick to act when the city of Toronto was affected by an outbreak, and rightly so. Why is the government refusing to act when rural Canada has an outbreak?

    Hon. John Manley (Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I know that the hon. member wants to score some political points, but I really do urge him to note the distinctions between those people, and there are many of them--

    Some hon. members: Oh, oh.

    Mr. Kevin Sorenson: Shame on you. Wake up, John, this is a whole industry we are talking about.

    The Speaker: Order. It is time for the Chair to score some political points and get some silence in the chamber. We cannot hear the Deputy Prime Minister's answer because there is so much yelling on every side. I am not a judge of political points but we will want to be able to hear the answer and see if it is in order.

    Hon. John Manley: Mr. Speaker, at some point we have to be responsible. The inability of the hon. member to distinguish between people who we are urging to voluntarily go into quarantine and those who are laid off as a result of conditions that arise in an industry, if he is asking for a waiver of the waiting period in the conditions in which he is describing, then he should be urging it for those in the tourism sector for example, who have also faced layoffs as a result of the SARS outbreak. If we start that--

    The Speaker: The hon. member for Crowfoot.

    Mr. Howard Hilstrom (Selkirk—Interlake, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, it has been 13 days since a single cow was detected with BSE. The Canadian economy has taken a $390 million hit so far. The tests on all the depopulated cattle will be completed this week. So far, all the tests have come back negative without another case of BSE.

    My question is for the minister of agriculture. Has the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food received a commitment from U.S. Agriculture Secretary Veneman that once the tests are completed that the border will be opened immediately?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I have had a number of discussions with the U.S. secretary of agriculture. Like us, the Americans are waiting for the results of the final tests. Hopefully they will continue to be negative. We have no reason to believe that they will not.

    I can assure the hon. member that we have already talked about the types of steps and how quickly we can open the border. However, first of all, we need to have the science so that we can demonstrate that not only to the United States but to everyone else in the world. We look forward to getting that very soon.

    Mr. Howard Hilstrom (Selkirk—Interlake, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, it is heartening that at least this minister remembers conversations he had with the U.S. unlike the Prime Minister.

    If an immediate full opening of the border does not occur by the first of next week, this BSE issue will become a full blown national economic crisis. One option available could be a partial reopening of the border to Canadian boxed beef from animals less than two years of age.

    Is the minister negotiating a partial reopening of the U.S. border to this beef?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, based on the comments I made in the previous answer to the hon. member, yes, we are.

    We are having discussions about the possibility of opening the border for such things as veal, which is young beef, and for young animals both carcass and live. However we need the science before we can do that. Again, we hope that the science continues to show what appears to be the case so far which is that this was one isolated animal that did not get into the food chain.

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    Mr. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the government cannot even implement a questionnaire at Toronto's airport three months after the crisis started.

    We have a huge beef industry that is on the verge of collapse if we do not get some cooperation from the Americans. Again, the Prime Minister has not helped. He spoke to the President and could not even remember if he had raised the subject with him.

    While he is over in Europe has he yet had a chance to discuss this issue with the President? Can the government report to the House on whether there is any possibility of the U.S. administration lifting its ban on Canadian beef?

    Hon. David Anderson (Minister of the Environment, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, this is strange advice coming from a member who goes on Fox TV to embarrass Canada and has referred to Canada publicly as a second rate country.

    The party's former leader did the infamous chicken little tour of the world in which he warned that the Canadian economy was in collapse. This is the party that consistently underrates Canada and its ability to surmount difficulties, and consistently downgrades Canada when it should be bragging about its successes.

    Mr. David Anderson (Cypress Hills—Grasslands, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, I think the word is farce, not force.

    The Minister of Agriculture announced today that he anticipates the American border will remain closed to beef exports for at least another week. The original cow has been slaughtered, the renderings have been trapped and removed from the system, the original birthplace herd has been depopulated and is being tested, cows from the trace out have been destroyed and feed mills have been cleared.

    What else must occur before the U.S. will be satisfied that the disease has been contained and eradicated?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the only comment I have made about opening the U.S. border is that I hope it opens soon. I have not said when that soon will be because all of the science is not proven.

    The Premier of Alberta said this morning that lobbying is not what it takes, it takes science. The science is not yet completed. The trace outs are happening and the tests are taking place. The DNA samples in some situations are not back yet because they take some days to do. That work will continue. The only way we will be able to demonstrate that this is an isolated incident is by completing the science, and that is what we will do.

    Mr. David Anderson (Cypress Hills—Grasslands, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, last week the cattle industry was losing $11 million per day. This week it is losing $30 million per day. After next week, losses will be catastrophic, feedlots will be completely plugged and cow-calf operators will be running out of operating money.

    Has the government established a target date for having the border reopened and if not, what contingency plan does the minister have in place to deal with such a catastrophe?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I answered the hon. member's question about opening the border. We want to open the U.S. border and other borders as quickly as we possibly can. It will take science to do that.

    He should appreciate the fact that Canada has the best system in the world to do the tracking and tracing and conducting that science. The best compensation is opening the border and that is where we are concentrating our efforts.

    Ms. Pauline Picard (Drummond, BQ): Mr. Speaker, the current mad cow disease episode has many repercussions. It has caused problems not only for cattle farmers and slaughterhouses, but also for laboratories that specialize in bovine semen and embryos, which are now banned by several countries. The news was confirmed by the Canadian embassy in Beijing and by the Canadian Livestock Genetics Association.

    How could the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food tell us in committee that there was no ban when there has been one since May 21 that represents $20 million—

    The Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food.

[English]

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I believe in the committee I asked the hon. member to give me the specifics on that. She may have sent that to my office. However I can say that if there is a country blocking embryos and semen because of BSE it is against the Office International des Epizooties. If she would bring the specific case to my attention we will address it.

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    Mr. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, instead of representing Canadians' interests abroad, the Prime Minister, the petty little guy from Shawinigan, once again seems to be engaging in a war of insults with President Bush.

    There are the duties on softwood lumber and wheat. There are the travel advisories over the SARS outbreak. There is the ban on the importation of Canadian beef. On the issue of mad cow disease, which the Prime Minister forgot whether he even discussed it with the President, can the government report whether the President and the Prime Minister have had any useful discussions that might result in the lifting of the ban on the importation of Canadian beef?

    Hon. John Manley (Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I am sure the hon. member knows that there is additional work being carried on by the authorities at both the federal and provincial levels. Once the appropriate information is available, then of course we will immediately urge that the ban on imports to the United States be lifted. That will be done at all appropriate levels.

    Mr. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the Deputy Prime Minister can have this laid-back tone, but this is costing the industry millions every day that it is in effect.

    The government waived the EI waiting period for workers directly affected by SARS in Toronto. On Monday I asked the Prime Minister in the House if he would do the same thing for beef industry workers. He appeared to say yes. A day later the human resources minister appeared to have said no.

    When will the government be fair to beef industry workers and eliminate the EI waiting period?

    Hon. Jane Stewart (Minister of Human Resources Development, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I first want to say how much we appreciate the difficulties that may be associated to those who are working in the meat processing industry.

    Let us be clear that the waiving of the two week waiting period in Toronto was for those who are directly affected by quarantine. We waived that two week period to support the quarantine for individuals who had no choice of going out to work, and could stay at home and have income for their families.

    By working with the employers and the employees as we are doing every single day, we want to make sure that employment insurance work sharing opportunities and all the aspects of the employment insurance program are there for those who need it.

    Mr. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, that kind of hair splitting is not acceptable. Workers in the industry are being directly affected because of the outbreak of mad cow disease. When EI waiting times were eliminated because of the Toronto SARS crisis, they were eliminated for those who were “prevented from working because of an outbreak”. Beef industry workers are also prevented from working because of an outbreak.

    How can the government explain this double standard toward the working conditions of rural Canadians?

    Hon. Jane Stewart (Minister of Human Resources Development, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, there is no double standard. I would implore the hon. member to understand the circumstances around which waiving the two week waiting period was undertaken. It is precisely for those who are quarantined, who cannot leave their homes, who cannot go to work and who have to have the opportunity to have income support for their families.

    There are other aspects of the employment insurance system that are there. They are working and working well. My officials are working with employers and employees to ensure they understand all aspects of the program and have the full benefit of those programs.

    Mr. Rick Casson (Lethbridge, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, it has been nine days since our borders were closed to exports of beef and beef products. Canada's multi-billion dollar beef industry is in peril of disappearing. With every hour that goes by, the industry gets closer to economic collapse.

    Could the minister tell us what demands are being made by our trading partners to assure them what we already know that our beef is safe, and when will our borders be reopened?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I had another conversation yesterday right after question period with Secretary Ann Veneman, of the United States. I asked her that question specifically. She said that they, like us, need more science.

    The depopulation of herds is continuing so we can demonstrate not only to our trading partners but to the International Office of Epizootics that the system we have and the science we are using is the proper way. Hopefully we can demonstrate that it is only one cow because that is what our system has found.

    Mr. Rick Casson (Lethbridge, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, every day that goes by sees more and more of these cattle reach maturity. This situation is not like the softwood lumber dispute where the government can sit back and wait months and years to reach a decision. These are live animals. They reach maturity very quickly and must be fed and maintained on a daily basis.

    With our borders closed, what is the government prepared to do with the 60% of these mature animals that have no market?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I spent two hours with the Beef Roundtable this morning, which has representatives from all the value chain and the beef industry. They have agreed that the primary concern and the primary goal at this time is to get the border open and the markets open around the world. Those are the efforts we are taking at this time. We will continue, and hopefully we will be successful in the near future.

    Mr. Rick Borotsik (Brandon—Souris, PC): Mr. Speaker, every day the U.S. border is shut to Canadian beef, the situation becomes more desperate for producers, feedlot operators, auction marts, packing plants and truckers. Today the Prime Minister once again poked the U.S. President in the eye with his nonsensical ramblings. It is obvious the Prime Minister does not realize our economy is strong because of our dependence on U.S. markets.

    My question is for the Minister of Agriculture. Why did the Prime Minister blind side him like this? Why is the Prime Minister going out of his way to make it so difficult to open this border?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we are making every effort to get the border open. I want to quote from Mr. Wythe Willey who is the president of the National Cattlemen's Beef Association in the United States and a trade policy adviser to President George Bush. He has said that the word of the Canadian beef system being safe should be enough and be sufficient for Washington to resume the north-south trade in cattle.

    That is the type of support we have in the United States. That is the type of support with which we will work. I am confident that when the science is there and we complete the science in the near future the Prime Minister will again demonstrate that to the President.

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Mr. Howard Hilstrom (Selkirk—Interlake, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the prices paid for live cattle in Canada are determined by our offshore customers and what they are willing to pay. The United States is our biggest foreign customer, so reopening the border to exports is the key to getting our beef industry back on its feet.

    What specific investigative steps and changes to regulations, if any, is the United States demanding before our beef exports will once again flow across the border?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the United States has not made any specific demands or requests. What it is asking is the same as we are asking here and what we are seeking here. It wants to see the results of the tremendous tracking and tracing system we have.

    I am pleased to say that the second test on the case herd has now come back and, as the first test did, it is all negative. That means there were no animals in that ranch with BSE.

    Mr. Howard Hilstrom (Selkirk—Interlake, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, while this investigation continues, farmers, ranchers and livestock exporters are losing $11 million a day. This is hurting our farm families.

    This investigation, for example, has DNA testing of the McRae family farm. That testing has been going on for about four or five days to this point. When can we expect to see that testing on that specific indexed cow so that those animals can be depopulated?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is getting very specific. I believe he had an opportunity in standing committee to ask that question this morning.

    I am not a scientist, but it is my understanding that DNA testing does take a few days. That is the tracking and tracing system we have so we can see if we can find other animals that are genetically related to the cow found to have BSE, which was taken out of the food chain. If there are other herd mates of that, we can test those animals as well. We have that system in Canada. Most countries do not have that.

Mr. Louis Plamondon (Bas-Richelieu—Nicolet—Bécancour, BQ): Mr. Speaker, Quebec beef producers are asking why they are having to bear the brunt of a ban on their exports to the U.S. when there has been not a single case of mad cow disease found in Quebec. Yet the Canadian Food Inspection Agency's ban on American poultry with Newcastle disease was limited to just four U.S. states.

    Can the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food explain to us why he accepts the principle of regionalization in connection with diseased American poultry but not Quebec beef?

[English]

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, there is a significant difference between Newcastle disease in poultry and BSE. We are looking to find the cause of BSE in the one cow that was found in Canada. With Newcastle disease it is easier. We know the cause. We can isolate the cause of Newcastle disease and we can regionalize it because the cause is known. That process is recognized as well by the Office International des Epizooties.

[Translation]

    Mr. Louis Plamondon (Bas-Richelieu—Nicolet—Bécancour, BQ): Mr. Speaker, we are just inches away from having mad cow disease waved as a symbol of Canadian unity.

    I am asking the minister to show some responsibility and acknowledge that, with regionalization, only the affected region would be covered by the ban, which would prevent needlessly penalizing the entire beef industry across Canada.

[English]

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the Office International des Epizooties does not have a provision for regionalizing BSE. It has not been successfully done in any country in the world. There is no precedent on that.

    As I said yesterday, the beef industry is very much integrated in Canada. Cattle have originated in every province in Canada and as well, Canadian cattle are in the United States. This is a much different situation than the one referred to as Newcastle disease in poultry and therefore has to be treated in a different way.

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Mr. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the government about the mad cow situation which we know is of grave concern to all sides of the House. Hundreds of animals are being destroyed or quarantined as is necessary to ensure containment and to ensure the quality of Canadian beef, but in the process hundreds of jobs of ordinary Canadians are being affected.

    In the case of the SARS crisis in Toronto, the government acted quickly to relax EI rules to waive the EI waiting period. Would the government be prepared to do the same thing for Canadian workers affected by the mad cow crisis?

    Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we were not very happy when we saw that problem develop. I would like to congratulate the ministers and officials of the Department of Agriculture in Ottawa and in Alberta for the diligence they have shown in coming to grips with the problem.

    We had some good news in that there was only one cow affected in that operation. There is some work still going on and there is the question of the consequences for the people affected. Of course, the Minister of Human Resources Development will see what she can do in order to be just for these people as was done for the people of Toronto.

    Mr. Stephen Harper (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, I thank the Prime Minister for that consideration.

    There is another way the Canadian government can help. Canada has an agreement with a number of countries, including Australia and New Zealand, to import a fixed amount of beef, but in the past we have allowed into the country some extra beef through an over-quota system.

    Now that Canadian beef is blocked at the borders, will the government agree to temporarily suspend the over-quota import of foreign beef and allow Canadian producers to fill the entire demand of the Canadian market?

    Hon. Pierre Pettigrew (Minister for International Trade, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I thank the leader of the official opposition for the very pertinent question. We have already been working very closely on this issue with the Canadian industry.

    I understand that we actually import from three countries at this time: Uruguay, Argentina and New Zealand. They are special products and we are in close touch with the industry to ensure that we do what is in the best interests of our industry at this time.

Mr. Dick Proctor (Palliser, NDP): Mr. Speaker, besides health concerns Canadians see crises like mad cow and SARS as big time job losses in the country. Our Prime Minister may see crisis as an excuse for dining out but putting food on the table is a real concern for families, even if it is only a photo opportunity for him, particularly meat plant workers who cannot even afford a temporary loss of work.

    The government has ignored the hospitality workers in Toronto with the EI benefit program. I am asking if the Prime Minister will deliver for meat plant workers and wave the waiting period as a result of the mad cow layoffs?

[Translation]

    Ms. Diane St-Jacques (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Human Resources Development, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we are taking the risk of job loss in the beef industry very seriously, and the department will continue to monitor the situation very closely.

    If there are layoffs in meat packing plants or in related areas of the beef industry, workers will be eligible for employment insurance and can count on it.

[English]

    Mr. Dick Proctor (Palliser, NDP): Mr. Speaker, workers in crisis deserve more than a prime ministerial happy meal. SARS has again hit Toronto, with the hospitality industry already in crisis and reeling from the first one.

    The Liberal response: Not a penny in compensation for the hospitality sector, just an ad campaign that apparently does not even mention the word Toronto in the ad.

    Why will the Prime Minister spend $100 million to glorify the past when he will not spend one penny to protect hospitality workers as a result of these emergencies?

    Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I think the member of Parliament just made a remark about the fact that I went to have a dinner the other day to show that Canadian beef was good.

    I received a letter from Premier Klein, who said:

 

On behalf of the Government of Alberta and Alberta's cattle producers, I am writing to thank you for your public show of confidence in Alberta's and Canada's beef industry. Your steak lunch in Ottawa on Wednesday received a tremendous amount of coverage across Canada, and it means a great deal to our province...

    He kept on and on, congratulating the Minister of Agriculture, so I think I will accept that.

    Mr. Monte Solberg (Medicine Hat, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, these are the facts regarding mad cow disease in Canada.

    Exactly one cow has been found to have mad cow disease. That animal never entered the food chain. Not one of the other animals in that herd showed any signs of the disease. A dozen other herds with links to this diseased animal have been quarantined. Not a single animal in any of those herds has shown any signs of mad cow disease.

    However despite these facts, the U.S. border remains closed to Canadian beef and cattle.

    I assume the minister has been in touch with his counterpart in the U.S. My question is this. What specific criteria does Canada now have to meet in order for the Americans to open up the border again?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I have had at least seven conversations with my counterpart in the United States in the last number of days.

    The hon. member is correct in the statistics he gives, except that the trace out being done in those quarantined herds, the tracing ahead of the animals that left that farm and back from where that cow came, is not yet complete.

    The work we have done so far definitely proves there is only one cow and, no, it did not get in the food chain. We need to complete that, and that work is ongoing at this time. We are very fortunate that we have the best food surveillance system in the world and when we show--

    The Speaker: The hon. member for Medicine Hat.

    Mr. Monte Solberg (Medicine Hat, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, 2,400 workers in my riding alone, at meat packers, are affected by this. Cattle feeders are on the verge of going bankrupt, and all their suppliers are in deep trouble right now. This is an extraordinarily serious issue.

    What I want to know from the minister is this. First, how long will it take for that trace out to finish up. Second, what criteria have the Americans specified that we need to meet in order for them to open up the border again so we can start to export our beef?

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, they have not given a specific criteria other than they say that they want, and I believe them, this border opened as quickly as we do. They know the integration of the beef industry between Canada and the United States. They know there are over half a million head of Canadian cattle in feedlots and in breeding herds in the United States. It is critical to them as well.

    What they want is what we want, and that is all the scientific proof we possibly can get that this was only one cow. We are well on the way to do that. It takes time to do that scientifically. Food safety and safety are number one. We will base it on science and demonstrate that, not only to the United States but to the world.

Mr. Louis Plamondon (Bas-Richelieu—Nicolet—Bécancour, BQ): Mr. Speaker, the Quebec government has implemented an exemplary tracking system that ensures it will not suffer Alberta's current problems with mad cow disease. Moreover, when this disease hit Britain, the entire beef industry in Europe was not subject to a ban. The minister should consider using this system.

    The Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food should learn from what Alberta is going through and adopt the UPA's solution, which is to regionalize agricultural and safety practices, thereby limiting the ban's impact to local areas instead of endangering the Canadian beef industry as a whole.

[English]

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the Canadian cattle industry, as I said a few minutes ago, is not only integrated with the United States but it is integrated across our country.

    Canadian genetics of cattle move from province to province across the country, and the programs and the system of surveillance based on food safety and science needs to be in place for the whole country.

[Translation]

    Mr. Louis Plamondon (Bas-Richelieu—Nicolet—Bécancour, BQ): Mr. Speaker, I think that the minister's answer is, in fact, the problem.

    I asked him a clear question. Since Quebec's prevention system works extremely well, what is the federal government waiting for to implement it, insofar as possible within its own areas of jurisdiction, to reassure importing countries, so that Quebec producers can resume exports?

[English]

    Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the hon. member knows that Quebec is part of Canada, and the Canadian Food Inspection Agency is a federal inspection agency that does the inspection in Quebec, as it does in every province, for all meat that leaves Quebec to other provinces or other parts of the world.

    We all benefit in Canada from the best food inspection systems in the world, and it is there for all Canadians in all provinces.

Mr. Rick Borotsik (Brandon—Souris, PC): Mr. Speaker, mad cow disease along with the new cases of SARS have delivered a one, two crippling punch to the Canadian economy. What Canadians needed was somebody to instill confidence, someone to demonstrate real leadership. Eating one steak does not cut it. People's livelihoods are threatened. The future of a $30 billion industry is in jeopardy.

    My question is for the Prime Minister. What kind of compensation package, what kind of support payments will be in place for producers, truckers, auction houses and packing plants?

    Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we have the problem of mad cow which has been dealt with by the Minister of Agriculture very effectively. Now there will be necessarily some consequences for some people and we will see what we can do.

    However, his big attack on the economy of Canada, I would like to tell the hon. member that the G8 has asked the Prime Minister of Canada to make a presentation on economic performance because Canada is the one country in the G8 that is having the best economic performance of all the industrialized nations.

    Mr. Gary Schellenberger (Perth--Middlesex, PC): Mr. Speaker, the case of mad cow disease is having a devastating impact on beef farmers across Canada. Better Beef, a packing plant in Guelph, announced that it has just laid off 100 people.

    Earlier a question was asked about providing an EI program for workers affected by mad cow disease similar to the one created for SARS. The government's response was to continue to monitor the situation. That is simply not good enough. Will the government provide real assistance? Yes or no.

[Translation]

    Ms. Diane St-Jacques (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Human Resources Development, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, as I said earlier, we are taking the situation in the beef industry very seriously, and workers can count on the employment insurance plan if they lose their jobs.

    Moreover, if the situation warrants, those in charge of employment insurance can sign a worksharing agreement. The Government of Canada is there for Canadian workers and is working very hard to find solutions to this difficult situation.

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